Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" <jmbsvicetto@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 19:10:44
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo by Richard Freeman
Hash: SHA1

On 19-06-2010 17:40, Richard Freeman wrote:
> On 06/19/2010 01:06 PM, Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto wrote: >> On 19-06-2010 16:15, Sebastian Pipping wrote: >>> #gentoo-infra is a channel on infra matters. >>> The fact that it's developers only doesn't make it a private channel in >>> a sense of "tone doesn't matter". >> >> you've failed to notice an important point that others have already >> tried to convey to you - #gentoo-infra is the home of the Gentoo infra >> team. Yes, developers go there to address infra issues on Gentoo, but it >> is the infra team channel and not the channel of every Gentoo developer. > > Perhaps he didn't fail to notice this point, but rather he just > disagrees with it? > > The fact is that #gentoo-infra is part of the Gentoo linux distribution. > It belongs to every Gentoo developer, or at least legally to every > Gentoo foundation member. Conduct on this channel reflects on all > Gentoo developers.
Richard, that channel is as much part of the Gentoo Linux distribution as #gentoo-kde, #gentoo-elections, #gentoo-devrel, #gentoo-forums and many others, including private channels for some teams. I can assure you that if someone goes to #gentoo-forums and tries to tell the forums team what tone should be used in that channel, we'll kindly ask the person to stop or to leave. This is one of the "public" and exposed channels and thus we have a tone with that in mind, but we're not going to set our tone according to the demands of a developer that is not even part of the team. I can convey similar statements about #gentoo-userrel, #gentoo-devrel, #gentoo-elections and many others. I've picked these particular channels as I'm member of these teams, have been for a while, and these are public channels that try to keep an inviting tone as they are very exposed to the community. If someone tried to go to the old userrel private channel and tell the people in the team how to behave in their "backyard", they would likely get a similar response to that used in #gentoo-infra. What would grant any non-member of a team the right to demand how the members of the team should act amongst themselves in their private room? About the "legal right", that isn't true. There are a few misconceptions in your statement. Even though the Foundation is the body which holds the Gentoo brand, trademarks and logo, it's not the Foundation that sets the rules for joining and be part of the Gentoo Developers Community. Furthermore, being a Gentoo developer doesn't mean you can join any team you want or that you have a "right" to go to any #gentoo-* channel. In case you have any doubt, I can give you a list of quite a few channels most developers don't have access to. If you insist, to address the question that access lists for #gentoo-* channels can be set by Freenode (our main IRC network), you should know that the only people Freenode will listen to regarding that are the members of the Freenode Gentoo Group Contacts. The people in that group were not chosen by the Foundation nor do they respond to it. Also, please never forget that being part of Gentoo is a "privilege" and not a "right".
> It really does bother me that everybody is lining up to defend this kind > of behavior. If the response had been - sorry, I guess the joking got > out of hand I'd say, ok, well, let's try to do better but let's all move > on. I don't see offensive behavior using Gentoo IDs/IRC Cloaks/media as > a trivial matter. It sets the overall tone of the distro, which is what > this thread is all about.
I'm not defending "your-mom jokes" nor a "harsh tone" in Gentoo. I'm trying to explain the difference between joking amongst friends on your house and making insulting comments directed towards individual members or a global community in the public. The #gentoo channel has had a long time policy of clean language as it can be and is used by children and it's one of the channels (the one?) with greater exposure to the community. Many of the comments and jokes that are common practice and perfectly reasonable on #gentoo-dev would likely get you a warning in #gentoo. Some #gentoo-* channels impose some restrictions about valid topics for that channel. The #gentoo-ops channel topic is "Discussion of #gentoo issues". The #gentoo-kde channel doesn't want PM discussions. So the appropriate tone for each channel depends of its environment.
> I've heard several devs over the years comment that they love > contributing to Gentoo, but they'd never put it on their resume. Who > can blame them? I know that if I ever were hiring somebody and they > pointed out that they were a Gentoo dev, I'd tend to assume that their > technical knowledge was pretty good but you can be assured I'd do quite > a bit of digging around to figure out if they're somebody I'd want > working on my team.
Well, this is an option of every Gentoo developer. It's up to each member of the community to decide whether they want to publicize their participation in Gentoo or not. To be more precise, it's the option of every member of every community to decide that. In my humble opinion, that decision reveals much about the person and can help explain how one behaves in the Gentoo community. So if that helps you or someone else make your opinion about this particular Gentoo developer, you should know I do publicize that I'm a member of this community and I feel no shame in being part of it.
> I don't think that most Gentoo devs behave in this way. I think a lot > of people care about trying to fix this. I don't think it is asking too > much for Gentoo devs to try to keep their behavior reasonably > professional when using Gentoo media, or Gentoo emails/cloaks/etc.
No, it's not too much to ask and I agree we should all try to keep our best behaviour - in particular in public. But none of us has any right demanding that in private mediums. As an example, even though I use my gentoo cloak online, you don't have any right to impose a behaviour into me in my private channel.
> No need to start burning people at the stake for slip-ups, but let's at > least try to agree that we'd like to be associated with a somewhat > professional-acting distribution? > > Rich
We have a loosely-knit community that is able to provide a reasonable product "Gentoo Linux". Let's try to avoid killing it by wanting to impose a certain "mentality" or "behaviour" into others and let's try to respect each other and learn to live in a community. - -- Regards, Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.15 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJMHRYYAAoJEC8ZTXQF1qEP7OwP/ixgXEVgT9q6MnioG5ho9Kgo uB4Xlef9HQVILF7TY5xlghBvklp9sX3T22fx1U4p/fYlH8Xr2U1ZGsL/Pzf5axLL LuM91uMf2sp11spYw3wAxobT0cy1uAoV6ViEIlT1cW2hZqWz1x/vP3K3YSLwbSwM OCQlKJrHcpmtwIusZLSKGSa7VxaF5Ed+UY1HpnH97Yjahk6CLNY3PVCnMyjyJQsw KTT+1puFerwJ7DMNm2HCVGOybEQIfzaLJ7ffXuqVt+8xxdalIAjvOlLFsrXmrZ1g db+M5UpLVOMo0/Qvcs3eT7qD1yPRh178ONk68UqIgY44/xLwAnTTtHKu4hUOMWWP SyA6qQ1Tm2S9RUwoFth0IG7/x8HcI0D8pvdiTmDuxrk8eLLfLyxQMqdoUHOWEaor 4B1Inj8SYHkzaaJVLQieU2k4JjRhmI645wF5tz6h+mhCxK+Wnd60fJSYWtas6/m9 CL1qWcq9aqnhT80X6Jn81no2CZaPJuWoGQOwl4xOgjBjXJwGgkjQXswWzu5flHiz O9kdSNxf9TfAtnIyW+14FlQwrdO+21Jhu3ev2zFsZ2KCUSARCnt4smLVZ7l1BnFZ AYpcPGIM1eRwCpS0sjyHhuAH4hzWVcrWl+PCiclh3mMcEOGNmidvCYzYlj+seVjk W/3G5CNn+pucObTKUx6L =QeYC -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] Tone in Gentoo Richard Freeman <rich0@g.o>