Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Igor <lanthruster@×××××.com>
To: Ian Stakenvicius <gentoo-dev@l.g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge
Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2014 16:27:10
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge by Ian Stakenvicius
1 Hello Ian,
3 Friday, August 8, 2014, 7:45:56 PM, you wrote:
7 > Hash: SHA256
9 > Igor - you need to read the emerge man page.
11 > "emerge -uDNav @world" is the recommended way to update your system,
12 > because then you will stay in sync with all appropriate updates in the
13 > portage tree. However, if you don't want to do this, just "emerge -u
14 > @world" -- that will only update packages in your world file, and will
15 > only force dependency updates when the new version is required (based
16 > on minimum versions in package dependencies). And if you only want to
17 > upgrade things piecemeal, then use "--exclude [pkg]" to skip updates,
18 > or "emerge -1 [pkg]" to only update an explicit list, or use
19 > /etc/portage/package.mask to avoid updating to newer versions.
21 It's unreliable, if you update system on daily basis - the system
22 will get unstable and eventually will not even boot. It will be
23 up-to-date but not functional.
24 UDEV was the latest example :-( The updated system requires constant
25 human assistance and the number of CRITICAL bugs is always
26 constant (heart beat bug affected the latest systems but not old).
27 I know no server that is automatically updated with -uDNav @world
28 and works for more than 6 months.
30 I would do it but I know that each time @world updated - I'm in
31 a possible trouble. I need to check all config files, all daemons
32 for changes, boot managers, mdadmin, web servers, mysql, udev,
33 and the surprise will happen when you boot next time. May be in
34 in 300 days, then you try to remember what was changed in
35 100 days, it's close to a hell.
37 Maintainers - don't have time to test packages against old
38 versions, they just pull in the new versions in e-build with >
39 each is doing that and the resulting update is an enormous
40 surplus.
42 > If you're asking for something even lighter than what 'emerge -u
43 > @world' will provide, on an automagic system-wide level, then i think
44 > you'll need to author some detailed specifications as to exactly what
45 > it is you want this new updating feature to do.
47 > Please note, though, that we as Gentoo developers can't guarantee that
48 > your system is going to remain stable if you don't update --deep,
49 > because we can't test every possible combination of every
50 > stable-keyworded dependency version against every package -- not even
51 > a tinderbox makes that particularly feasible, there's just too many
52 > permutations. I also am not sure at this time if 'emerge -u' would
54 You need to know what packages are installed and how they're installed
55 world wide. That is the only way to stabilize Gentoo
56 architecture. Firing updates not knowing what happened - is the lack
57 of feedback that is hurting gentoo development.
59 (of course all is IMHO)
61 > upgrade dependencies when the version installed was removed from the
62 > portage tree, and this may have multiple adverse effects on your
63 > system long-term depending on why that older version was dropped from
64 > the tree.
66 > So, the recommendation remains that one should update the entire
67 > system via -uDN in order to receive all of the updates available for
68 > your entire dependency tree.
70 Is there any warranty that updated with -uDN system will remain
71 full functional for 1 year? I have 100% warranty that not updated
72 system is going to remain functional for 5 or 6 years. I have some with
73 7 years uptime.
75 But if I'm going to update a SINGLE package on this system with --emerge
76 it will pull EVERYTHING in, while nodep - may work fine.
78 I'm in a trap - if I update daily - the systems are offline, I'm not able
79 to maintain systems after updates - requires too much resources. If you have
80 1 gentoo it might take a few days, imagine you have 100 or 1000 systems and
81 they do not share the same hardware or the same boot locations,
82 they all can be managed by 2 people if not updated and you need about 100
83 people if you update.
85 The number of bugs is the same. It's more difficult to hack into 1996 system
86 than in 2012.
88 I'm very sorry may be I'm not getting it right, it hunts me how it's
89 advisable to update system daily and I'm having a very bad life experience
90 out of advise. May be it's only me?
92 I can't keep a single system functional with auto-updates for just 6 months
93 - something always breaks. For me Gentoo is not a toy, it's a tool I use
94 daily. If a tool is broken - my product is broken.
97 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
98 > Version: GnuPG v2
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101 > Z46UnOotVyIQyoVuQPkA/3AQ4NtBE6R216mtFSwj/8xSetNkKnCx3gBxe6vCJt8T
102 > =Eq1Y
103 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
108 --
109 Best regards,
110 Igor mailto:lanthruster@×××××.com


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge Homer Parker <hparker@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge Ian Stakenvicius <axs@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-dev] minimalistic emerge "Paweł Hajdan