Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Daniel Campbell <zlg@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: /etc/hostname on gentoo
Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2016 07:24:59
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: /etc/hostname on gentoo by "Michał Górny"
1 On 08/27/2016 11:48 PM, Michał Górny wrote:
2 > On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 23:30:09 -0700
3 > Daniel Campbell <zlg@g.o> wrote:
4 >
5 >> On 08/24/2016 09:42 AM, Zac Medico wrote:
6 >>> On 08/24/2016 09:33 AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote:
7 >>>> * no benefit put forth so far, other than that it's the same file that
8 >>>> systemd uses, which is true but not beneficial as far as I can tell
9 >>>
10 >>> It's a de facto standard. Being different for the sake of being
11 >>> different is not a virtue in cases like this.
12 >>>
13 >>
14 >> And doing things because "everyone else does it" is dumb, because it
15 >> precludes our ability to choose and makes us subject to the decisions
16 >> made outside of our distribution. Of course, as a distro we're subject
17 >> to outside decisions often, but what's the point of being a distro if
18 >> you're doing things the same way everyone else does?
19 >
20 > And doing things different just because "we can" is even more dumb,
21 > because it precludes our ability to offer users consistent environment
22 > and makes us subject to the decisions made by random Gentoo developers
23 > long time ago. Of course, as a distro we're subject to single developer
24 > decisions often, but what's the point of being a distro if you are
25 > bound to bad decisions made in the past by a single person?
26 >
27 > Not saying that I care but just pointing out how dumb this
28 > argumentation is.
29 >
30 Well, the thing is that -- on a Gentoo system -- /etc/conf.d/ is pretty
31 consistent. We still ship some things in their typical location, like
32 fstab, locale.gen, etc, but those don't directly relate to OpenRC and
33 aren't (to my knowledge) part of its problem space. The files in
34 /etc/conf.d/ that don't relate to system settings are shortcuts to
35 setting daemon options instead of shoving them into the scripts.
37 So if we go with /etc/hostname, it's inconsistent with what we (Gentoo)
38 do but in line with most others. The inverse is also true, putting us in
39 a catch-22. The "do both" will attract ire from some of us, but the
40 prior suggestion to throw it into an ebuild phase will largely avoid
41 this bikeshedding. Whether or not the phase can do that *cleanly* and
42 *correctly* is another matter for a different thread, but I do think
43 Portage (the openrc or systemd/docker/whatever package(s)) should be
44 handling that on Gentoo in order to reduce clutter and confusion.
46 There is one technical concern, though... If the OpenRC ebuild symlinks
47 or otherwise owns /etc/hostname and the user switches to a systemd
48 profile, would Portage be smart enough to leave /etc/hostname alone and
49 let the packages switch ownership of the file? They create an ownership
50 block otherwise, as (I assume) systemd would also own the file. Other
51 inits may, as well, and I'm fairly sure you can run Gentoo without
52 OpenRC at all. Would we expect the user to create the file before
53 switching profiles, and not permit OpenRC to own the file?
55 -- off-topic below --
57 I think "because we can", in the right circumstances, is a great reason
58 to do something. That's how ideas are tested and come to fruition.
59 Distributions need to have some sort of vision or strongly held belief
60 in order to form a good following, or software that exemplifies said
61 vision. Collaboration is important, sure, but design-by-committee is
62 proven to be a terrible process that's prone to analysis paralysis,
63 bikeshedding, and encourages a culture of yes-men (and/or yes-women for
64 those who want PC speech). There is a middle ground where people work
65 together when it's beneficial and makes sense, and go their own way on
66 certain decisions. It's what created the distribution model in the first
67 place.
69 For the most part, the "we should do what everyone else is doing" train
70 is slowly reducing most distribution differences to a package manager
71 and some default backgrounds. I can't speak for you or other people but
72 I personally enjoy technical diversity. The distribution model allows
73 for many different approaches to be followed: things from Gentoo to
74 Slackware, Debian to Arch, Fedora, Gobolinux, CRUX, SuSE, etc. Doing
75 things "because we can" is a feature, imo, not a bug. A consolidated
76 GNU/Linux world would be terrible and far less colorful.
77 --
78 Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer
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