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On 08/27/2016 11:48 PM, Michał Górny wrote: |
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> On Sat, 27 Aug 2016 23:30:09 -0700 |
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> Daniel Campbell <zlg@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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>> On 08/24/2016 09:42 AM, Zac Medico wrote: |
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>>> On 08/24/2016 09:33 AM, Michael Orlitzky wrote: |
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>>>> * no benefit put forth so far, other than that it's the same file that |
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>>>> systemd uses, which is true but not beneficial as far as I can tell |
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>>> |
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>>> It's a de facto standard. Being different for the sake of being |
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>>> different is not a virtue in cases like this. |
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>>> |
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>> |
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>> And doing things because "everyone else does it" is dumb, because it |
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>> precludes our ability to choose and makes us subject to the decisions |
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>> made outside of our distribution. Of course, as a distro we're subject |
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>> to outside decisions often, but what's the point of being a distro if |
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>> you're doing things the same way everyone else does? |
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> |
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> And doing things different just because "we can" is even more dumb, |
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> because it precludes our ability to offer users consistent environment |
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> and makes us subject to the decisions made by random Gentoo developers |
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> long time ago. Of course, as a distro we're subject to single developer |
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> decisions often, but what's the point of being a distro if you are |
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> bound to bad decisions made in the past by a single person? |
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> |
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> Not saying that I care but just pointing out how dumb this |
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> argumentation is. |
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> |
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Well, the thing is that -- on a Gentoo system -- /etc/conf.d/ is pretty |
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consistent. We still ship some things in their typical location, like |
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fstab, locale.gen, etc, but those don't directly relate to OpenRC and |
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aren't (to my knowledge) part of its problem space. The files in |
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/etc/conf.d/ that don't relate to system settings are shortcuts to |
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setting daemon options instead of shoving them into the scripts. |
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|
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So if we go with /etc/hostname, it's inconsistent with what we (Gentoo) |
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do but in line with most others. The inverse is also true, putting us in |
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a catch-22. The "do both" will attract ire from some of us, but the |
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prior suggestion to throw it into an ebuild phase will largely avoid |
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this bikeshedding. Whether or not the phase can do that *cleanly* and |
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*correctly* is another matter for a different thread, but I do think |
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Portage (the openrc or systemd/docker/whatever package(s)) should be |
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handling that on Gentoo in order to reduce clutter and confusion. |
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|
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There is one technical concern, though... If the OpenRC ebuild symlinks |
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or otherwise owns /etc/hostname and the user switches to a systemd |
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profile, would Portage be smart enough to leave /etc/hostname alone and |
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let the packages switch ownership of the file? They create an ownership |
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block otherwise, as (I assume) systemd would also own the file. Other |
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inits may, as well, and I'm fairly sure you can run Gentoo without |
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OpenRC at all. Would we expect the user to create the file before |
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switching profiles, and not permit OpenRC to own the file? |
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|
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-- off-topic below -- |
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|
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I think "because we can", in the right circumstances, is a great reason |
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to do something. That's how ideas are tested and come to fruition. |
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Distributions need to have some sort of vision or strongly held belief |
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in order to form a good following, or software that exemplifies said |
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vision. Collaboration is important, sure, but design-by-committee is |
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proven to be a terrible process that's prone to analysis paralysis, |
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bikeshedding, and encourages a culture of yes-men (and/or yes-women for |
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those who want PC speech). There is a middle ground where people work |
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together when it's beneficial and makes sense, and go their own way on |
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certain decisions. It's what created the distribution model in the first |
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place. |
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|
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For the most part, the "we should do what everyone else is doing" train |
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is slowly reducing most distribution differences to a package manager |
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and some default backgrounds. I can't speak for you or other people but |
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I personally enjoy technical diversity. The distribution model allows |
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for many different approaches to be followed: things from Gentoo to |
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Slackware, Debian to Arch, Fedora, Gobolinux, CRUX, SuSE, etc. Doing |
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things "because we can" is a feature, imo, not a bug. A consolidated |
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GNU/Linux world would be terrible and far less colorful. |
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-- |
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Daniel Campbell - Gentoo Developer |
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OpenPGP Key: 0x1EA055D6 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net |
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fpr: AE03 9064 AE00 053C 270C 1DE4 6F7A 9091 1EA0 55D6 |