Re: [gentoo-dev] Config Idea

[Yannick Koehler]

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On April 22, 2002 09:22 pm, Todd Wright wrote:
> This is exactly what I have been talking about - experience.  Would you
> hire a system administrator to configure your system who had NOT done it a
> few times?  While  agree that it is admirable that you are trying to cater
> for the newbies, they MUST learn this stuff. Doing it for them is not
> helping them learn.  If they dont learn it, then they will have major
> problems the first time something breaks and they need to fix it.

I realize that there's system administrator.  But realize that there's not 
only system administrator.  And while I agree that people need to know more, 
I simply don't agree on forcing them, I'd like that they have the 
opportunities and Gentoo is a great one but that they could start whenever 
the want and when they feel tired they can still go ahead and use that distro 
and continue another time.  That's the idea now it is not always such a big 
deal but I do like that idea, it is about choice.

> > The simple fact that etc-update tool exists prove that handling
> > many file is
> > actually harder than a single one.  Otherwise that tool wouldn't
> > have been
> > wrote or wouldn't be used by administrator or normal users.
>
> No. It does not prove that. I may have been on the fence about one vs many
> earlier, but thinking about it I would much rather the many config files
> approach. It makes it simple to go directly to the file I want to edit
> without having to scroll through pages and pages of unrelated stuff. It
> also makes it impossible to break anything not related to the change Im
> making.
>
> The etc-update tool does not prove that this is difficult. It proves that
> it is tedious to mass-update your system after installing a package makes
> 20 or more changes to /etc (which just happened to me). Presumably you have
> customised your system, and presumably new versions of packages add new
> functionality and coresponding new configuration parameters. You need to
> merge the new with the old, and etc-update makes that simpler by showing
> you the differences between the two. While I dont normally use etc-update,
> in this instance I will because it makes my task of merging new
> configuration with old simpler.

I have not customized my system in term of configuration much but it still 
require me time to merge those file and normally it shouldn't.  It looks kind 
of stupid to me that a computer cannot figure out how to merge those simple 
config file and require my time to do it.  In this way I may have been 
incorrect to use the word simple as what I meant from the begining is making 
my life simplier which meant to remove the headache of playing around with my 
config when I didn't want to change anything related to it but at the same 
time get the new stuff in and fixes only.

> Imagine trying to edit a single file, keeping some older parameters that
> you have customised and adding new parameters at the same time. You have
> stated that the configuration would be generated from a single master xml
> file. You have even talked about such a tool to keep this master file up to
> date. Does that prove that handling a single file is more dificult?

You are right, it doesn't prove it.  Again I wrongly explained myself and I 
apologize.  My thinking was that a tools based on a file that can tell more 
than being a text file would allow a better merging tool and that would make 
it easier to use than an existing diff/merge tool.  The single/multi file I 
don't talk anymore as it looks obvious that no one want a single file.  

Software thought seems to work best on a single representation of files and in 
this way I keep the idea of a single logical representation of those multiple 
files.

> You are contradicting yourself which proves to me that the idea has not
> properly formulated in your mind. You are comming up with arguments that do
> not make sense, simply to support your view, whichever way the wind blows
> it at the time.  These are the tactics of a Troll. (no its not an insult -
> if you dont know what a Troll is, search a few mailing lists or ask in the
> newsgroups). I havnt made my mind up if you are serious yet or just
> Trolling. If you are serious, then when you do some more thinking about it,
> im sure you too will see its a bad idea.

That is true, as I've mentionned before and still mention recentely I am 
thinking about the idea and request comments.  I am seeking points that I'll 
need to work on more than others, some may defines that as priorities in 
order to setup a proof of concept.  

- -- 

Yannick Koehler
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