Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: William Hubbs <kc5eiv@×××××××××××××.net>
To: Gentoo Developers <gentoo-dev@g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 13:17:05
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer by Stroller
Hi all,

I agree with this.

I don't think that we should have the livecd boot directly into an installer either.  I was comfortable using the current install process, and I think it should always be an option.



On Mon, Apr 14, 2003 at 11:18:52AM +0100, Stroller wrote:
> On Sunday, April 13, 2003, at 09:49 am, Jeff Rose wrote: > > > One of the major pains in the redhat like installers deals with > > package selection. I think it is ridiculous to give people a list of > > a thousand packages and tell them to pick. Especially since the > > package documentation is horrible. Most people probably wouldn't know > > that its important for them to have the e2fsprogs installed, for > > example. So, this > > is the portion of the installer where I see the most room for > > innovation. > > Hear! Hear! > > I work (for my sins) in an evangelically M$-only environment. Our IT > Director has obviously read something in the newspapers recently about > Linux, so he dusted off his "old" Vaio c-series & installed DeadRat, > then brought it to me when it booted to Gnome & didn't set-up the circa > 1180 x 480 screen resolution properly. > > Some things I found: > - sendmail started at the default runlevel when I booted it up. > - he was logging in to the GUI as root, and didn't even now how to get > a virtual terminal using ctrl-alt-f1 > - gcc wasn't installed and the VaioCam stuff needs installing from > source. > - RH8 allows you to copy the CD .iso files to hard-drive (in DOS for > instance), boot from a floppy, and then continue the install from these > HD images. Unfortunately, once the system is installed, the "control > panel" package manager doesn't know where to look for CDs, and fails > anytime you try to add packages. I couldn't find an option to change > this at all, so ended up mounting the .iso files as `-o loop` (mind > you, at least I learned something), running rpm from the CLI, and > fulfilling dependencies by hand. Yeuch! It's cute & ironic that Gentoo > is intended for "power-users", as against RH's ease-of-use, yet such a > problem cannot arise with Gentoo. > - I want a Vaio c-series > > Now, I rather like the current Gentoo install process, but I've been > using Linux for a couple of years already. A friend with only Windows > experience recently overheard me talking about Gentoo, and decided to > try it. Because he does not live locally, I can't visit him to help > when he has problems with his install, and I really feel I should have > recommended Mandrake. > > We'll see how it goes when my friend resolves his present issue with an > older CD-ROM drive resolved, but I would not complain if an installer: - > helped with network card detection, > and helped ensure that /etc/modules.autoload was suitable > - saved typing when partitioning > - automated the copying / extraction if the stage.tar files > - did the chroot automatically > - prompted the user for a root password > - insisted on adding an initial user > (making sure it gave that user wheel privileges, so the user can `su`) > - offered to install a GUI of the user's choice > from the KDE / Gnome grp tarballs > - did NOT add xstart to the default run-level, but added info on how to > do so to the MOTD. AFAICT configuring X can be a a bit complicated, > and autodetection of hardware could be quite a task to write. So IMO, > when the system is booted for the first time, it should go to the > CLI, and newbie users can't complain if X doesn't handle their > graphics card / monitor: the answer is "it's not intended to do > that". > - on the same theme, I'd like the installation process to disable root > logins to the GUI. > - some other stuff I can't think of at this time in the morning > > It arises however that Gentoo has some very nice features for its new > users: > - Gentoo installs a simple Unix system, with no bloat. > This really is what Unix is about: I often read in Linux newsgroups > posters asking "Why doesn't foo happen when I click bar in the network > options box of the Linux control panel". > So many GUI configuration tools are available in modern distros that > they become, perhaps, less usable, and harder to support. > Unix is NOT Windows - why do folks so often try to make it that way..? > Equally I feel that Gentoo probably shouldn't be marketed as a first > distro (and it's bit unfortunate that so many newbies consider > themselves power-users & like the idea of a "small, tight, > highly-optimised system", but have expections of GUI configuration > tools). > - Gentoo doesn't impose a particular GUI on you, or install 5. > I remember finding the choice a bit overwhelming when I first tried > Mandrake. > - It's not Unix if cc isn't installed. > I've met OS X sys admins who are afraid to install from source, and I > remember my trepidation at the idea when I first started Linux. > Gentoo overcomes this VERY well. > > So, anyway, I'm probably preaching to the converted here, and so > wasting my breath. I usually try not to advocate operating systems. I > guess I'm proposing balance in any installer that is written: if you > don't try to make it do too much, I think you could be very successful. > > Stroller. > > > > > -- > gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list >
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Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] GUI installer John Nilsson <john@×××××××.nu>