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On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:09 PM, Steev Klimaszewski <steev@g.o> wrote: |
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> Please keep in mind that not every device that runs Gentoo has the |
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> ability to just pop new storage in with more space. The Beaglebone |
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> Black has 2GB eMMC. |
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|
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Hence the reason I suggested that embedded systems are a perfect case |
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where INSTALL_MASK makes sense. I'm all for having the feature there |
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for users to use. |
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|
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> I'm not exactly a fan of systemd, though I know it has some uses, and |
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> I'm still curious as to why it installs/stores *configuration* data |
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> in /lib - if only from an upgrade point of view, we back up /etc, we |
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> back up /home - now we need to back up /lib, /usr/lib, /var, or whatever |
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> some random upstream decides is a good place to store configuration |
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> information!? |
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|
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Why would you back up default config settings, except as part of a |
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full system backup including all the binaries/libs/etc? If you lose a |
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file in /usr you just re-install the package and it will be there. |
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|
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Users aren't supposed to edit any of the config files in /usr, just as |
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they're not supposed to edit make.defaults in /usr. If they don't |
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like what a unit file or udev rule in /usr does, they just have to |
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stick a corresponding file in /etc to override it, and that of course |
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should be backed up. |
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|
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If they just hard-coded the defaults in the source code, would that |
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make it better (in which case it would be in /usr, and far more opaque |
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- and this is traditionally how these things were done)? |
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|
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> |
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> I get it, we all are busy, we have better things to do than patch things |
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> from upstream, but sometimes, it's a requirement. We wouldn't install a |
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> script that does rm -rf / with root permissions (assuming a non-hardened |
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> box where it would cause quite a bit of damage) - but we're okay with |
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> just randomly storing configuration data all over the system? Please |
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> consider these things before saying we're going to blindly follow |
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> upstream - if something is too hard for you to maintain, ask for some |
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> assistance in doing so. |
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|
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Nobody is saying that we should follow upstream simply for its own |
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sake. However, we shouldn't change things when there is no real |
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benefit to doing so. How is sticking a bunch of template config files |
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that users aren't supposed to touch in /etc helpful? How is removing |
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"systemd" from filenames helpful? How is sticking a few files in /lib |
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instead of /usr/lib more helpful than sticking copies of them in an |
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initramfs? |
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|
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And I don't see the value in the more traditional config file style |
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where you just give the user one huge file and allow them to use |
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etc-update/etc to constantly re-merge changes into it. I greatly |
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appreciate having a 8 line file in /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d vs what my |
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config files used to look like. I still have a backup of XF86Config |
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in /etc from 2004 and it is 464 lines long and was no more functional, |
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beyond being more likely to break during upgrades. |
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|
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I really don't see anything that can't be done with Gentoo today that |
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could be done if we just moved a bunch of files around. |
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However, if there really are things that are causing genuine problems |
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I'm all for making little changes that fix them when they're |
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practical. My main concern with this whole area is that it really |
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strikes me as fighting over "the one true way." Is there a certain |
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elegance to separating partition management, raid, and file storage? |
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Absolutely, but that doesn't mean that there aren't real benefits to |
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something like btrfs. |
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|
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Rich |