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On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 08:13:23PM -0700, Alec Warner wrote: |
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> On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 10:34 AM, Mike Frysinger <vapier@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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> > On Wednesday 24 April 2013 13:23:23 William Hubbs wrote: |
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> > > On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 12:58:21PM -0400, Ian Stakenvicius wrote: |
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> > > > On 24/04/13 12:16 PM, William Hubbs wrote: |
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> > > > > it has been suggested that gentoo's oldnet scripts be split out |
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> > > > > into their own package separate from OpenRC so that they can be |
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> > > > > developed independently. I am looking at doing this for OpenRC |
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> > > > > 0.12, which I hope to release soon. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > This means when you emerge or upgrade to openrc-0.12, the net.* |
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> > > > > scripts will no longer be included. I am going to call the separate |
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> > > > > package that includes these scripts gentoo-oldnet. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > My plan is to write a newsitem when OpenRC 0.12 is released |
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> > > > > telling users this and that they will have to emerge gentoo-oldnet |
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> > > > > to get the gentoo networking scripts or turn on the newnet (maybe |
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> > > > > I'll change this to net) use flag to get OpenRC's network scripts |
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> > > > > installed and put ewarns in the ebuild if this use flag is turned |
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> > > > > off. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > I feel that a newsitem and ewarns in the OpenRC ebuild cover live |
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> > > > > systems well. In a nutshell, users should pay attention to their |
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> > > > > news items and ewarns. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > On the other hand, some are suggesting that I should add a runtime |
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> > > > > dependency to OpenRC so that it pulls in gentoo-oldnet. Since |
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> > > > > OpenRC doesn't need gentoo-oldnet in order to run, I feel like this |
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> > > > > would be abusing dependencies. |
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> > > > > |
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> > > > > Does anyone have any thoughts? |
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> > > > |
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> > > > Current users should be able to do a -uDN and still have their |
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> > > > existing systems work as-is. Whether you do this via a static |
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> > > > dependency or one controlled by a use flag (and be sure use flag |
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> > > > defaults would have oldnet installed by default) is up to you. |
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> > > |
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> > > The issue is that OpenRC does not have any kind of dependency on |
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> > > gentoo-oldnet at all. There will be a separate loopback script in OpenRC |
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> > > so it is possible to run OpenRC on a system without the oldnet or |
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> > > newnet scripts. In fact, this is a completely valid configuration. |
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> > > |
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> > > OpenRC doesn't "link" to gentoo-oldnet in any way, so there is no |
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> > > dependency. |
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> > > |
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> > > The way I read the dev manual [1], a newsitem and postinst messages are |
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> > > the way to go for somethinglike this. |
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> > |
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> > it is reasonable to expect openrc updates to *not* break a system. that |
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> > means |
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> > people shouldn't be required to read a news/postinst message to keep from |
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> > killing things. |
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> > |
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> > |
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> So my understanding is that WIlliam does not want to break peoples shit. He |
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> doesn't want to maintain oldnet anymore. Other people do. What he wants to |
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> do is move oldnet out of openrc. I think that means that: |
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> openrc will no longer contain oldnet. |
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> openrc ebuilds will need to depend on <something> to make networking work. |
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> A brief discussion with him in chat seems to imply that oldnet is still |
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> fine. So in Gentoo we could just set IUSE="+oldnet" or similar, and it |
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> would get pulled in. |
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|
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I'll be involved in maintaining oldnet, but there are others (mainly |
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robbat2) who want to be able to release new versions of oldnet |
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separately from OpenRC, and to look into porting it to systemd. |
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|
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I don't have a problem with the IUSE="+oldnet" issue if no one else |
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does, it just seemed sort of backward to me, using a use flag to pull in |
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something that really isn't a dependency. |
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|
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But this would mean we can forget about any virtuals. |
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|
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William |
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|
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> Someone may need to fix up the stages to work (I thought they relied on |
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> USE="-*" which would entail missing out on oldnet here.) |
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|
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Yes, I was planning to get with Jorge before this hits stable and figure |
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out what needs to happen. |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> |
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> > even then, a default Gentoo system should have networking support |
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> > available by |
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> > default. our manuals assume this, and people shouldn't have to install a |
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> > stage3 and then do `emerge gentoo-oldnet` just to have that happen. so |
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> > keeping a dependency in openrc (perhaps initially hard, or behind |
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> > IUSE=+oldnet) makes sense. |
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> > -mike |
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> > |
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> |
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> Yeah after discussing in chat, I don't think the intention was to 'get |
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> everyone off of oldnet' but simply to move it out of openrc and into |
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> dedicated packages with maintainers that care about it. |
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> |
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> -A |