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Casey Allen Shobe posted <200507200132.30745.lists@×××××××××××××.com>, |
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excerpted below, on Wed, 20 Jul 2005 01:32:30 +0000: |
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|
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> Hello all, I'm sorry to bring this here, but I don't know where else to |
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> take it, and feel that I was treated really unfairly. |
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> |
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> As you know, I recently inquired about ebuild development on this list, |
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> and mentioned vpopmail. <developer> answered my mail and suggested that |
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> I submit a patch. |
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> |
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> I then spent some time working on the ebuild, and in doing so, |
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> discovered that the postgres support in vpopmail was not very good at |
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> all, so I wrote back to <developer>, and said that I was going to hold |
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> off working on the ebuild since I am currently working with the vpopmail |
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> team to improve vpopmail itself. <developer> wrote this rather rude |
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> reply: |
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> |
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> ------------------- |
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> Casey Allen Shobe wrote: |
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>> Well I patched the ebuild and got it working, but I'm so terribly |
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>> disappointed with vpopmail's horrible postgresql support that I don't |
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>> think I'll be using it at all until I rewrite it. :P |
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>> |
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>> Ah well, thanks anyways. I'll let you know when/if they let me fix |
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>> vpopmail (already posted about it on the list). |
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> |
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> The will not allow it and I will not allow someone to go fooling in an |
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> ebuild I maintain. Not trying to be an ass here but we have something |
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> called respect for others when it comes to the tree and what they |
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> maintain. |
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|
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snip/snip.. |
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|
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The following could be considered philosophical ramblings by some. Those |
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who don't like that sort of thing.. skip on to the next message. |
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|
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So as not to get too personal, I replaced the name with <developer>. I |
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really wish this had been done in the original. After all, for those |
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needing to know, it's not difficult to trace who <developer> might be, |
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especially since this was posted to a public list with the (ostensible) |
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goal of finding where to take it next, NOT to specifically point fingers, |
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and leaving names out of it can sometimes help ease tensions. |
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|
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As others have stated, devrel is the place to take it. However, there was |
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the question of what remark may have been taken wrongly. I think I see |
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that, above. |
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|
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<developer> likely took the "horrible ... support ... I won't be using at |
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all until I rewrite it" as a threat to his maintainership of the package, |
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not seeing that you meant working with upstream. Else, perhaps he was |
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instrumental in creating the original upstream support you just called |
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"horrible", saying you were going to "rewrite" it, in which case yeah, I |
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can see someone getting a bit offended over that. |
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|
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Yes, folks need to develop a rather thicker skin and take offense less |
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easily. However, the FLOSS community is unfortunately all too rich with |
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stories of rivalries and enemies made, for no reason other than offense |
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was taken where no offense was originally intended. |
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|
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I've come to believe, due to a large degree to my own often humbling |
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experiences, that a good portion of the problem is that FLOSS community |
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developers often tend to be far better at what they do than most of their |
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real life peers, and are used to being considered /the/ reference |
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authority on their interests and often on computers or technology in |
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general. In meatspace, they are usually 90th percentile and above, and so |
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used to "explaining" things in "normal people" terms that they do it as a |
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matter of course, simply assuming (usually correctly, in meatspace) they |
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have a better understanding of the topic than anyone else around. |
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|
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Now, take this 90th plus percentile person, and change their peer group |
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from one of the general population to one where they are co-equal or even |
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at the LOW end of understanding of the tech involved, and it can be a VERY |
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humbling experience. NO LONGER are they always right, or at least "right |
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enough" that no one else has the knowledge to question them! Getting |
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used to being at the LOW end, having folks talk down to YOU, as you've |
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been used to talking down (not in a mean way, but just at a level that can |
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be understood) to others, NOT being the unquestioned authority on the |
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subject because no one else knows enough about it to question you, takes a |
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*LOT* of getting used to. |
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|
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It is my belief that many of the misunderstandings in the community are |
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based on this problem. Someone has a huge ego, because they are used to |
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being right, 99% of the time, and never having to say "I'm sorry", or "I |
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was wrong". Get that someone interfacing with another someone with the |
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same problem, and there can be and often are fireworks! Most in the |
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community eventually learn to deal with the problem, becoming rather more |
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humble in the process, but some never do. One of the amazing things about |
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Linus, if you've watched him in action, is how well he seems to have |
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learned this lesson -- how incredibly well he defuses the situation (in |
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most cases, the bitkeeper thing was exceptional in that it was the |
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exception proving the general point) with his self deprecating humor. |
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|
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So... I'd just consider this the growing pains of a developer, faced with |
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dealing with an environment where he is surrounded by mostly equals (or |
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better) for the first time, thus, STRONGLY reacting as if his legitimacy |
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was challenged, at the slightest suggestion that there might be a |
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different and possibly better solution to the issue. That words like |
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"horrible" and "rewrite" were included only strengthened what was in his |
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view a serious challenge to his maintainership, and therefore, to his |
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legitimacy as a Gentoo developer. |
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|
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I'd suggest apologies would be in order from both sides. Unfortunately, |
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when one side has resorted to kill filing the other, it's very difficult |
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to get an apology through, and yes, then it's time to involve a third |
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party, the reason devrelations is there. Ideally, both sides ultimately |
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learn from the situation, making the one less likely to take offense and |
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more "professional" in his reactions even when he /does/ take /personal/ |
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offense, and the other more aware of the sensitivity of words such as |
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"horrible" and "rewrite", particularly for those somewhat insecure in |
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their position in the first place. |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in |
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http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html |
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|
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|
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-- |
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