Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] QA Team's role

[Ciaran McCreesh]

On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 16:08:05 +0100 Jakub Moc <jakub@g.o> wrote:
| 28.2.2006, 15:39:40, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
| > On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 10:49:13 +0100 Jakub Moc <jakub@g.o>
| > wrote:
| > | No, that's not a policy document, ebuild policy is documented
| > | here:
| > |
| > http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/devrel/handbook/handbook.xml?style=printable&part=3&chap=1
| 
| > No, the whole thing is policy.
| 
| No, it isn't.

'Fraid it is. Everything in the devrel handbook that isn't explicitly
marked as a guideline is policy.

| And silently sticking parts of unofficial gentoo
| devmanual into official Gentoo docs, and then silently turning them
| into a "policy" enforced under QA disguise is a bad very practice,
| and pretending that this has been in the mentioned _howto_ (not
| policy) for a long time as just plain silly. Since you haven't
| answered the question in one of my previous emails at all, let me ask
| again:
| 
| When and where has been the following change discussed and who
| approved that?
| 
| http://www.gentoo.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/xml/htdocs/proj/en/devrel/handbook/hb-guide-ebuild.xml?r1=1.25&r2=1.26&root=gentoo

Wouldn't know. That was nothing to do with me. I just wrote the
original text (or actually, that might not even have been me). It
finding its way into the policy docs was devrel's doing.

| > | Moreover, the cited howto is wrong, since it will break
| > | built_with_use checks
| 
| > No, that's a separate issue.
| 
| No, it isn't. If you want something to have as a policy, it needs to
| be error-free, reasonably applicable and not doing more harm than if
| it isn't applied at all. And implementing such stuff requires a
| proper discussion, considering the consequences and some sort of
| consent among affected developers. (Also, that howto example is less
| than fortunate/clear, like some user noted in Bug 124401).

built_with_use isn't a question of conflicting USE flags. It's a
separate question of dependency resolution, and in this situation it
*can't* be solved using the method that's been standard for four years
or more.

| > | The howto also doesn't apply to cases like
| > | recode vs. mysql, because that's a completely different
| > | functionality, you can't exactly choose which one is better on
| > | behalf of the user.
| 
| > No, it does apply.
| 
| No, it doesn't, you can't reasonably favour one of two completely
| different functionalities based on some automagic
| assumption/developer discretion. That doesn't benefit users in any
| way and just produces unexpected results (hey, I explicitely enabled
| "recode" use flag and php compiled without, the ebuild is broken,
| fix0r it!)

By all means warn the user. There's nothing in policy disallowing that.

| No, noone should enforce a policy that
| 
| - doesn't exist (see above)

The whole devrel handbook is policy, except where otherwise noted. See
Mike's reply.

| - hasn't been discussed properly and approved (see above)

Nothing in the devrel handbook was discussed properly or approved.

| - it's consequences haven't been considered wrt whether its benefits
| overweight the negatives and whether is useful at all.

This one doesn't rule out the policy item in question.

-- 
Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Wearer of the shiny hat)
Mail            : ciaranm at gentoo.org
Web             : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm