Re: [gentoo-dev] Programming advice wanted?

[Marc Giger]

On Mon, 22 Mar 2004 21:36:01 +0100
Patrick Lauer <gentoo@×××××××××××××.de> wrote:

> Offlist to keep the noise down.
>
> On Mon, 2004-03-22 at 21:17, Marc Giger wrote:
>
> > I really don't understand what people have against Java?!? Is it
> > because of Sun and its license?
> Not only that, there are different not fully compatible JVM's around.

Hehe, that's the reason why Sun is so conservative with the license.
They tried to avoid the incompatibilites.

> Performance tends to be bad to very bad (unless the programmer knows
> obscure details about Java)

That's not true, anyway not on applications without a GUI. A little
bit background knowlegde isn't bad. You will write better programs!

>
> > I have many years of experience in java programming and also learned
> > object oriented programming with it. In my opinion it's good and
> > clean.

> In my opinion it is ugly and bloated, but that's subjective and
> therefore not useful in a discussion.
>
> > How many other languages do you know, which works on multiple
> > platforms without recompiling, run as a plugin in browsers, has deep
> > security concept built in (sandbox, bytecode verifier, etc),
> > multithreading as a basic language feature, exception handling,
> > RPC/RMI, etc etc etc ...
> Python ? ;-)
> Most of the "script" languages (Parl, Python, Ruby, ...) have most of
> these features without the mad syntax of Java (static public int main
> (void) or something like that ... That's mad!)

Python seems to be a nice language, but I think it isn't comparable with
Java. It would never come in my mind to write a server app in Python.

Mad syntax? Why? I think this is the right way to allow (or protect)
data. Do you know the C++ syntax? "friends" and Co, that's ugly.
Multiple inheritance -> catastrophe. Nice solved with interfaces in Java

>
> > If someone really is interested in understanding object oriented
> > programming then I would advise to begin with Java.
> I'd advise a proper object-oriented language like Eiffel, otherwise
> lazy programmers use Java like a strange C-Dialect (which usually
> results in Spaghetti- or Lasagna-code)

That could be true, but I think this danger is given in every language.

>
>
> > In my case I learned OOP in Java and could utilize it to C++ without
> > big problems. The only strange thing was weird language constructs
> > and discrepancies in C/C++.
>
> OOP is not some magic silver bullet that does everything for you.
> For me OOP always looks like functional programming, only the other
> way around, so I tend to do it in proper functional style. But that's
> just me...

:-) Yeah, I think that's really just you;-)

>
> > Please don't get me wrong.
> Oh comeon, if you give us such good material for a flamewar we can't
> just sit back and do nothing ;-)

I know and it's ok:-)

greets

Marc

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