Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: "Brett I. Holcomb" <brettholcomb@×××××××.net>
To: gentoo-dev@g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part II.
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 01:38:57
Message-Id: auto-000094169569@remt22.cluster1.charter.net
In Reply to: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part II. by John Davis
1 John, I've followed this thread and given this some thought and am submitting
2 my 2 cents as a simpel user who has only done one ebuild (in progress).
3
4 1. Who do I need protection from? I've not found the Gentoo management
5 doing anything I needed protection from. The Social contract is good enough
6 for me.
7
8 2. Voting on what? Gentoo does not appear to be a democracy nor should it
9 be. To be effective there have to be leaders/managers who can make decisions
10 without having to consult an entire constituancy or large group. If leaders
11 have to take a vote before they do anything then nothing will get done.
12
13 In many cases we as users do vote. If there are enough request/bugs for a
14 package or feature it usually gets done. If there aren't enough requests or
15 no one wants to create or maintain a package then it doesn't get done.
16
17 3. Why? To be honest I don't see the links to Gentoo being community owned
18 nor do I see it as a democracy. Daniel Robbins started it and set it up and
19 now has people who have volunteered to help in many ways but it's his effort
20 that got things going and his vison that is to be followed. If Gentoo gets
21 to far off track then it will fall off in popularity and use. In short,
22 Daniel put the time and effort into starting it - it's his thing. Yes, he is
23 trying to set up an organization that will help keep it running and wants to
24 share it but still, it's his vision. If put all that effort into creating a
25 distro I'd sure want to make sure that I had a large say in the direction it
26 took. - yes, I would try and make sure it was "shared" but I would want to
27 set the direction of it.
28
29 Much of this point sounds paranoid to me - are people really worrying about
30 what is happening to their interests? I understand they are volunteers - if
31 someone feels he's being abused and can't work it out he can stop doing work
32 for Gentoo.
33
34 4. Does Gentoo really need a parlimentary procedure? Yes, Robert's rules
35 have some guidelines that can help a meeting run smoothly but in all the
36 meetings I 've been in the entire process has not been used. In most project
37 meetings you state the objectives or scope and go from there getting input
38 and making decisions.
39
40 I have never used debian but from all I've seen and heard (and not just in
41 this discussion) it is a nice distro but the stable branch is way behind in
42 what's available. Why use it as a model?
43
44 Also, Gentoo leaders have recognized that the phenomenal growth has caused
45 problems (even slower growth would have caused this <G>!). However, they
46 appear to be taking steps to react to this - why not see how those changes
47 work?
48
49 As I said, I'm just a user but of all the distro's I've tried Gentoo is
50 really the best. It's eliminated RPM messes and frustration, it's solid and
51 stable (unless you're stupid enough to do ~arch on your production systems
52 <G>) , packages that I've needed are kept up to date, and it is easy to
53 maintain. I hate to see it turned into a bureucratic organization that
54 produces a dead distro.
55
56 I'm not sure it's broken so let's not be too quick to fix it.
57
58 > Good evening all:
59 > I am sure that you have all noticed the recent changes in the Gentoo Linux
60 > management. For this effort, I believe that our current managers should be
61 > applauded for thier candidness and openness. Although, as with any
62 > organization, there is always room for constant change and improvement.
63 > Gentoo's current position can be summarized by a quote from bussiness
64 > philosopher Edward Demming:
65 >
66 > Change is not mandatory, because survival is not a necessity.
67 >
68 > Gentoo is at a crossroads: We can either continue to change and improve our
69 > management structure, or simply die like many other Linux distributions.
70 >
71 > In light of this issue, I propose the following changes to the Gentoo
72 > management structure:
73 >
74 > 1. Constitution
75 > All great organizations realize the need to protect their most important
76 > asset, their volunteers and employees. Gentoo does not have such a
77 > document, therefore there is no 'legal' protection for the developers and
78 > volunteers. Although we all know that Gentoo is commited to this, it is
79 > nowhere in writing.
80 >
81 > References: The Debian Constitution
82 > http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution
83 >
84 > 2. Open voting
85 > At this point in time, there is no published ruleset for voting, and there
86 > is no public record of voting results. There is also no offical published
87 > method of calculating a voting quorum. Additionally, with regard to the
88 > election of new managers, the vote is kept secret
89 .
90 >
91 > In order for any democratic system that uses voting to be successful, there
92 > *must* be accountability, concrete rules, and open results. How can there
93 > possibly be accountability if the results of the vote are kept completely
94 > secret? The find line between an oligarchy and a representative democracy
95 > is voting accountability. The developers, managers, and uses *must* know
96 > that the Gentoo voting process is secure in its philosophy and practice.
97 >
98 > References:
99 > http://www.debian.org/vote/ (Voting policy)
100 > http://www.debian.org/vote/2002/vote_0001 (Sample voting results)
101 > http://www.debian.org/vote/howto_vote (John Davis <zhen@g.o>Sample
102 voting ballot)
103 >
104 > 3. Defined terms for managers
105 > In order to preserve the balance of power, while at the same time
106 > protecting the rights and interests of the users and developers, it is
107 > necessary that all manager positions have a clear term length along with a
108 > clear and defined manager voting process (see above).
109 >
110 > The developers and users need to make sure that their interests are being
111 > maintained, and that the managers are true delegates for the Gentoo
112 > community. The developers, as well as managers, need to ensure that this
113 > stays true through normal managerial election.
114 >
115 > 4. Clear meeting procedure
116 > I encourage all developers and managers to review Robert's Book of Rules,
117 > as it provides invaluable information on proactive meeting procedure.
118 >
119 > By creating this document, I hope to help fix the problems that I see with
120 > Gentoo Linux. I believe that positive, intellectual conversation can lead
121 > us to the light at the end of the tunnel. I encourage you all to
122 > participate in this discussion, but please restrain from anger, lashing
123 > out, etc.
124 >
125 > Kind regards,
126 > //zhen
127
128 --
129
130 Brett I. Holcomb
131 AKA Grunt <><
132
133 --
134 gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part II. Owen Gunden <ogunden@××××××××××××.edu>