Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

[Chris Scullard]

Another user here throwing in his two cents (Gentoo must be rich by 
now). But I think that the mailing list absolutely needs changes. Like 
it or not, after the recent negative press, including the embarassing 
Daniel Robbins incident, this list has become a much higher-profile 
public face of Gentoo. For my own part, I have used this distro for 
years and never subscribed until all this bad press, and never posted 
until now that I see a potentially positive move coming under so much 
attack.

Jim Ramsay wrote:
> To my recollection, the recent flame wars have for the most part been
> between devs and non-devs.
>
>
It's a funny old thing because I wanted to say exactly this, but to make 
the opposite point! After reading for a few months, I am shocked, not 
just at the way that some people are behaving - there will always be bad 
behaviour, but that non-devs are allowed to come here and gratuitously 
insult developers with apparent total immunity. Developers are subject 
to bans and forced "vacations" from the project, as they should be. But 
from my observation all the recent flamewars have either had non-devs at 
the center of them, or been outright started by them, and there is 
nothing anybody seems to be able to do about it. This is a ridiculous 
situation that should never be tolerated (and would not be in a 
healthier project) and it's perfectly reasonable to me that the council 
wants to address it.

I think the heart of the problem is people assuming they have rights 
that they should not have. The only people who should have a RIGHT to 
post to this list are developers, and for everyone else it should be 
considered a privilege - one that can be easily revoked. There's no 
reason why a project has any obligation to create a mailing list that 
their developers are required to use in the course of their duties AND 
where they are subject to abuse from random people.

For the people who are saying "if this change goes through, I'm out", I 
don't think that's helpful. It's natural for some non-dev contributors 
to feel that their contributions are being minimized by a move like 
this. But I think it has to be acknowledged that a change is necessary, 
and you should instead join the discussion about how this is actually 
going to be done. I for one think a blanket ban of non-devs from posting 
is going a bit far, especially since I'm sure devs value many of their 
comments. But that's just it - it should be up to the developers whom 
they want (and more importantly don't want) to interact with. I would 
propose a plan whereby non-devs can be removed by a vote from some set 
number of devs. Say, if 5 or 6 developers do not want a person posting 
on the list any more then that person ought to be banned. I think most 
contributors would not have to worry about this happening to them. 
That's just one suggestion, and I'm sure the council is open to hearing 
alternatives from others.

Chris
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