Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: A Little Council Reform Anyone?

[Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto]

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Alright,

seeing that things are getting out of hand again, let me reply as a
member of the userrel team.

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Jul 2009 11:55:02 -0600
> Denis Dupeyron <calchan@g.o> wrote:
>> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Ciaran
>> McCreesh<ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com> wrote:
>>> I contribute productively and usefully
>> This should have gone in private but I want it to be public because
>> you and others apparently do not get it.
>
> No, this needs to be in public. You're trying to 'reform', but you're
> going about it completely the wrong way. Rather than addressing the
> problems and fixing them, you're trying to bury them.
>
> Moving conversations in private and making channels +m does not fix the
> root cause. It just allows those who are trying to disrupt things to
> get their way.
>
>> The fact that you're contributing or not does not give you or anybody
>> else the right to behave improperly on our mailing lists, forums, or
>> else. There is no amount of contribution that would compensate for
>> even the slightest inadequate behavior. Please everybody, print that
>> and pin it above your monitor.

You and everyone else is entitled to an opinion and Gentoo has showed
time and again to be a very open community allowing people to
participate in discussions.
However, as Denis was pointing out, no amount of contribution entitles
anyone (developer or not) to abuse our communication mediums and act
inappropriately.

> So say someone were to say "My aim is to make every project you're
> associated with fail, and to disrupt everything you do in any way I
> can", and then repeatedly pop up and start posting nonsense. What would
> a proper response be?
>
> Bear in mind that "ignore them" is not an answer, since ignoring them
> leads to their stated aim of disrupting things to succeed. The Council
> has on several occasions postponed and rejected proposals because the
> trolls haven't been answered.

As Denis has already stated we're not interested in the disputes between
you, paludis, exherbo and some other users or projects (funtoo?).
This ml is about Gentoo not about your (ciaranm, igli, trelane, etc) pet
projects.

>>> repeated pot-shots from the peanut gallery.
>> Thanks for the good example. Please, you and everybody else, note that
>> this above is considered abrasive by most of us.
>
> I'd call that an entirely appropriate description of the behaviour of a
> small group of people who have taken to deliberately disrupting
> everything they can in some way connect to me. If you feel that's
> inappropriate, please provide what you feel would be a better
> description of the following:

As you know very well, quite a few people would qualify your own
behaviour at times like that. So this is one of those cases that you
should start by looking at the mirror.

<snip>

We all have plenty examples of your bad behaviour, so let's not go down
that route.

>>> Steve pops up every now and again and tries to disrupt things.
>> You do the exact same in you own way. Please allow me to take that
>> beam from your eye.
>
> No, my goal is to help give Gentoo the progress it needs. There is a
> huge difference between that and having a stated aim of trying to make
> projects fail.

Some people seem to think that the best way for Gentoo to progress as
they would like, they need to ensure that you don't get to influence
Gentoo as they consider your proposals compromise Gentoo's future.

But again, we (Gentoo developers and community) are getting tired of all
the "bile" flying around. Please stop with that.

- --
Regards,

Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / SPARC / KDE
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