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@neddyseagoon: Yeah it would be great to have it back, I think the day |
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should remain as is. Every first Saturday of every month. Thanks. |
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@TomWij and Peter: Well guys, I think you should not expand the topic |
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so much, lets stay to the bugday. As I said in my first post, bugday's |
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goal is to close as many bugs as possible and not to create new tools. |
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We can create tools(small scripts) in the future that can help us |
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before the bugday. But in the bugday as an event we should concentrate |
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on closing bugs. |
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On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Tom Wijsman <TomWij@g.o> wrote: |
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> On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 01:20:01 +0100 |
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> Peter Stuge <peter@×××××.se> wrote: |
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> |
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>> Sure, but on the bugday itself it sounds on the name like the idea is |
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>> to work on bugs with currently available tools, rather than work on |
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>> tools to work on bugs .. some other time. |
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> |
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> Neither of us did suggest such thing. |
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> |
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>> > Yes, one shall not commit on packages other developers maintain |
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>> > without the permission to do such thing. |
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>> |
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>> This is basically stupid. |
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> |
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> But that's just the way it is, because random committing makes no sense. |
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> |
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>> Anyway, commit is one thing, but fixing bugs can be done while still |
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>> respecting that rule. I would however make this simple suggestion: |
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>> |
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>> On bugdays every bugfix [optionally for bugs inactive for x days] is |
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>> fair game for every developer to commit. |
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> |
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> It works this way for packages (retirement, etc...), but for bugs this |
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> introduces the random committing effect; just because you keep one bug |
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> around for a package and fix all others doesn't mean someone else can |
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> suddenly come and take that bug, fix and apply it blindly. |
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> |
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>> Those who feel threatened by other people touching their bits might |
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>> pay more attention to bugs then. |
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> |
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> Again more easily said than done, time is limited; not every bug can be |
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> fixed, some require too much effort for what they are worth, ... |
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> |
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>> It would also promote more acceptance of other fixing their stuff. I |
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>> know that several (many?) developers give blanket permission, and I |
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>> think that's good, but I think it's really broken that they have to |
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>> at all. Back to bugday.. |
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> |
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> This model has been in place for years, it's not easily changed. |
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> |
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>> > But let's assume the horribly "attaching a patch" approach (save |
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>> > two files, compare them, bla...)... |
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>> |
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>> Yes, web apps are supremely inefficient shitty tools. I'm very happy |
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>> to be able to simply refer to my overlay when I have fixed something. |
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>> |
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>> ... |
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>> |
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>> Submitting patches, no I think that's too broken on the web, and that |
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>> something more powerful like an overlay could be used instead - at |
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>> the very least for fixes from developers. |
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> |
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> That's just moving the extra effort to the person who receives your |
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> patch; who now has to obtain the overlay, sync the overlay, obtain the |
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> file from the overlay and diff that file against his local file to |
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> obtain the actual patch. And if it's not done in a timely manner, too |
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> much may have changed already which makes generating a clean patch hard |
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> and therefore will need them to spent time to figure out which code |
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> actually belongs to the patch. Overlays weren't meant for this... |
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> |
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>> I do try to also attach fixed files, but I don't always manage. |
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> |
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> I do try to generate patches from overlays, but I don't always manage. |
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> |
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>> > Can you write me a tool that shows these kinds of bugs, easily |
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>> > submit patches to them and follow up on whether the developer |
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>> > commits them or retires at one or another point? I don't do any of |
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>> > this for my bugs. |
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>> |
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>> Bugzilla implicitly does much of that for you already, if you tell it |
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>> to send you email for all changes on bugs you have the raw data in |
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>> email form, which may be easier to work with sans SQL access to the |
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>> bugzilla database. That works really well for me to follow any bugs |
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>> that I am interested in, and it's pretty easy to search in email and |
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>> see what has happened when, and how much is still open (different |
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>> folders). |
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> |
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> How exactly does Bugzilla show these kinds of bugs? |
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> |
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> Submitting patches or using overlays, it makes no difference. |
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> |
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> Following the bug through mail exactly doesn't show retirement, unless |
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> you CC yourself on a ton of bugs and want to maintain these individual |
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> CCs into archive folders where you look up the oldest mails (because |
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> not every CC is one you want to archive), and you also have to |
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> consider that you don't get mails for changes you commit to the bug. |
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> Sum that up and it's not a reliable approach, unless you write a tool. |
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> |
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>> > I could state that working on bugs assigned to someone else is |
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>> > orthogonal to fixing your own bugs. |
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>> |
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>> Sure - but if all one's own bugs are low priority perhaps it's more |
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>> useful on bugday to work on bugs assigned to someone else, if they |
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>> aren't doing it themselves. |
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> |
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> Those bugs are often of equal priority, and I have nothing against |
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> that; I'm just stating that it's much harder to fix other people's |
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> bugs, this is due to the inefficiency that comes along, without tools |
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> being written to aid in this process it'll continue that way. |
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> |
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>> > > He has become a developer so why would he not be able to take |
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>> > > neccessary action to close bugs, even if they haven't been |
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>> > > assigned to him? |
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>> > |
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>> > Because it isn't as simple as you make it seem like, as stated |
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>> > above. |
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>> |
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>> For several bugs that I have fixed, it is precisely that simple. |
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>> Fixes have been ready for months and just need to be committed. |
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>> I'd dare to call it outright trivial. |
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>> |
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>> They still aren't committed. |
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> |
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> "just" being the whole overlay process I outlined above? Not trivial. |
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> |
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>> Finding them easily? Well maybe a search query that orders by last |
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>> activity weighted by severity, number of attachments and fulltext |
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>> search for "fixed" would be a start? I guess that's easy to do even |
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>> in bugzilla's web interface? |
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> |
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> Still needs you to write this search query for it to become useful as |
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> a tool (a tool doesn't necessarily have to be a script or a program). |
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> |
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>> So any developer who wants to help could close bugs by comitting |
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>> fixes from others, fixes that are already in bugzilla. I guess the |
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>> few bugs that I have done this for are not unique in Gentoo's |
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>> bugzilla, likely there are lots of other bugs just like mine, where |
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>> users have contributed fixes for stuff that they have run into and it |
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>> still hasn't gotten committed, nor reviewed. At least one of "my" |
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>> bugs is even UNCONFIRMED. It's almost mocking the entire bugzilla. :) |
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> |
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> I can't find them, I don't have the right tools or search query. |
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> |
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> Will you link them all to us this Saturday on IRC? :( |
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> |
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>> Absolutely agreed! Tools are awesome and important. I just think |
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>> that *on* bugday everyone should be working on bugs instead. |
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> |
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> Agreed, but that's not today or tomorrow, just 4 days of a month. |
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> |
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>> > So, we need another tool to mark and bulk process unactionable |
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>> > bugs! Or at least plan and write the searches for our lovely |
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>> > Bugzilla to do so, oh, and also CC a ton of people with this |
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>> > madness while we're at it. |
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>> |
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>> I guess the low level stuff is there - bugzilla surely has some RPC |
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>> API, and someone mentioned pybugz which is perhaps a little bit |
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>> higher level. So maybe that is already possible. |
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> |
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> Yeah, it's one more to throw on the list of things to eventually |
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> implement when they start to extremely bother you; maybe I should set |
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> up a Gentoo Project that does nothing but implement these kinds of |
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> tools, "which one to implement first" is then voted by all developers. |
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> |
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>> > It's only a day short. The other six days are free to work on |
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>> > tools... |
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>> |
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>> I think we are in agreement actually - my point is about the bugday. |
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> |
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> And mine was not, just in general. |
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> |
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> Although I was reading this because I might look into helping out on |
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> such website, later on; which you probably have figured out by now... |
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> |
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> |
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> With kind regards, |
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> |
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> Tom Wijsman (TomWij) |
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> Gentoo Developer |
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> |
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> E-mail address : TomWij@g.o |
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> GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D |
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> GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D |