Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: When will KDE 3.5 be marked as stable?

[Jeff Rollin]

I think that sums up some good answers to my questions, too.

Jeff.

On 04/05/06, Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@g.o> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2006-05-04 at 13:48 +0200, Bart Braem wrote:
> > Does compiling KDE introduce so many bugs? I mean, let's be serious, all
> > other distributions have a stable 3.5.x now. Don't they experience all
> > those horrible bugs?
>
> Compiling KDE doesn't introduce bugs.  Compiling KDE with any
> combination of USE/CFLAGS/CXXFLAGS/GCC/Glibc/etc does.  Remember that
> we're a from-source distribution.  Guys like Debian or Red Hat just have
> to compile it *once* then they make a package of it, with exactly *one*
> set of options (USE), C(XX)FLAGS, gcc, glibc, etc. making their job
> infinitely easier.
>
> > Seriously, this is really becoming an issue. As I pointed out in a bug I
> > filed for a stable KDE (for which I apologize, I should have looked here
> > first), some people are leaving Gentoo because of this slow upgrade
> > process.
>
> Honestly, if they're leaving over something so minor, they're free to
> go.  We're not a commercial distribution.  We don't sell Gentoo.  We're
> not concerned with market share.
>
> > The classical answer from devs is "it's ready when it's ready". From a
> user
> > point of view this is very, very vague. Please give users a more clear
> > explanation, this creates great frustration when looking at other
> > distributions. Because it's stable there.
>
> As I stated above, they have a *much* lower barrier of entry for making
> something stable than we do.  We've tried making this explanation over
> and over again.  The problem is that every single version of $package,
> people don't look at the last explanation and ask again... and again...
> and again... and again.  It gets very old to answer the same question
> over and over again.  The simple answer is really "when we don't have
> major showstopper bugs anymore".  Again, remember that we have to
> support countless combinations from our users.  Other distributions need
> to support only one.  They can use forms of tricks to get it to compile
> that *one* time, including adding patches and other things that might
> not be suitable for a from-source distribution.
>
> > These are my 2 cents as a user. One that loves Gentoo. One that loves
> KDE.
> > One that's frustrated by the current situation. I am a CS so I know how
> > hard programming can be, don't get me wrong there. I do appreciate what
> you
> > guys do. But I can't understand why you do it this way right now.
>
> Quite simply, we don't want to give you crap.
>
> If we followed others blindly, as so many users suggest, then we would
> have stabilized KDE 3.5 ages ago, and every single one of you KDE users
> would be complaining about how our QA sucks because KDE doesn't compile
> or breaks badly in so many places.  We would hear about how Gentoo sucks
> where they can't even test such a major application as KDE properly.  We
> would have users leaving in droves.  Now, we can't have both fast
> stabilization *and* actual stability, so we err on the side of caution.
> We don't like hearing complaints any more than anyone else, but we'd
> rather hear a few "why isn't KDE stable yet" questions than *everyone*
> saying we suck because KDE is broken.
>
> I hope that sums it up for you.
>
> By the way, this isn't just for KDE.  This is how we do *every* package.
>
> --
> Chris Gianelloni
> Release Engineering - Strategic Lead
> x86 Architecture Team
> Games - Developer
> Gentoo Linux
>
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
>
> iD8DBQBEWfErkT4lNIS36YERAtKVAKDE9aVxS6dq34fleM1WPi2vOC9TGgCfb+ct
> GhTF595T05xwiL60103fkAk=
> =YYvC
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>


--
------------------------------------------------------
Argument against Linux number 6,033:

"...So this is like most Linux viruses. You have to download the virus
yourself, become root, install it and then run it. Seems like a lot of work
just to experience what you can get on Windows with a lot less trouble."