Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Ciaran McCreesh <ciaranm@×××××××.org>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting
Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 21:07:31
Message-Id: 20070303210315.3cbb8cc2@snowdrop
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting by Daniel Robbins
1 On Sat, 3 Mar 2007 13:17:56 -0700 "Daniel Robbins"
2 <drobbins.daniel@×××××.com> wrote:
3 > So, again, since you are participating as a key member in an official
4 > Gentoo project, which is a developer-only privilege
5
6 Why is it a developer-only privilege? You just made that up.
7
8 > and should be removed from PMS.
9
10 That's not your decision to make. That's up to the person in charge of
11 PMS, and somehow I suspect you're going to have to come up with a much
12 better non-circular argument in order to convince him...
13
14 I also like how you're constantly coming up with new excuses for trying
15 to stop me from working on a project of whose purpose you were not even
16 aware when you started doing it. Perhaps next you could start
17 complaining that I was partly responsible for the acronym and state
18 that all Gentoo projects must have a non-amusing name -- no-one's tried
19 that line yet!
20
21 > You really are making my point - you have a really sweet gig in that
22 > you get to act as a Gentoo developer
23
24 Acting as a Gentoo developer? You mean going around saying "ooh! ooh!
25 I'm a Gentoo developer"?
26
27 > Yet even those who are worthy of being called Gentoo developers don't
28 > enjoy the privileges that you are currently enjoying.
29
30 That's their own fault... You'll also note that I'm far from the only
31 person who's chosen to take this route...
32
33 > > I was kicked for suggesting [snip]
34 >
35 > I don't care why you were kicked; the issue at hand is that you *were*
36 > kicked, and you currently *are* kicked, and as long as you *are*
37 > kicked, you aren't allowed to participate in certain things.
38
39 Those things would be -core and, uh, nothing else... There's never been
40 any requirement that people contributing to Gentoo be Gentoo developers.
41
42 > Gentoo is only going to be fun and productive again if we:
43 >
44 > 1) maintain a courteous and professional atmosphere
45 > 2) focus on good, transparent project management and collaboration
46 > 3) deliver cool technologies to Gentoo users
47 >
48 > AND IN THAT ORDER ONLY, which is the only order that works long-term.
49 > It makes no sense to try to do this in reverse order. It does not
50 > work. 3 requires 2 and 2 requires 1. Right now these three pillars are
51 > being treated as mutually exclusive goals which is absolutely
52 > ridiculous and wrong, where we accept failure in point 1 in the hope
53 > of achieving 3.
54
55 Which sounds very nice, but it's blatantly untrue. I point you to
56 eselect, the devmanual and Paludis as perfect examples to the contrary,
57 and gentoo-config and Zynot's xbuilds as an example of what happens when
58 design and early development is opened up to too many people.
59
60 As for professional -- in a professional environment, anyone jumping in
61 and badmouthing a project when they don't even know what that project
62 is would have been fired a long time ago. And courteous -- it's
63 generally considered courteous to fact check and do some basic research
64 before wasting other people's time.
65
66 You're also assuming that Gentoo is about fun -- nothing wrong with
67 that, but having fun does not give you or anyone else the right to
68 break the tree or screw up users' systems. Fun as a primary goal is
69 extremely unprofessional and inappropriate for projects where the
70 impact of breakages is so high.
71
72 --
73 Ciaran McCreesh
74 Mail : ciaranm at ciaranm.org
75 Web : http://ciaranm.org/
76 Paludis, the secure package manager : http://paludis.pioto.org/

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting Daniel Robbins <drobbins.daniel@×××××.com>