Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: "Jorge Manuel B. S. Vicetto" <jmbsvicetto@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] Warn users not to do separate /usr partition without proper initramfs in the handbook?
Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 11:18:31
Message-Id: 4E3A7FCB.5010402@gentoo.org
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-dev] Warn users not to do separate /usr partition without proper initramfs in the handbook? by Samuli Suominen
1 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
2 Hash: SHA256
3
4 On 04-08-2011 07:55, Samuli Suominen wrote:
5 > On 08/04/2011 05:30 AM, Michał Górny wrote:
6 >> On Sat, 30 Jul 2011 10:27:27 +0300
7 <snip>
8 >> So, let's sum up a little.
9 >>
10 >> The most common argument against separate /usr requiring a proper
11 >> initramfs is 'it works now, thus it's great'. That is practically
12 >> understandable that people don't like to switch things upside down
13 >> like that, especially when machines are not locally reachable.
14 >>
15 >> What's the exact differences between an initramfs and an early
16 >> bootup setup in rootfs? As I see it: - initramfs is a small fs
17 >> which is used for a short while on boot, to setup the system
18 >> necessarily for the early bootup sequence, - while initial rootfs
19 >> is a rather large piece of fs which is supposed to contain random
20 >> stuff necessary for the early bootup to be able to proceed and
21 >> mount the necessary remaining stuff before the actual bootup
22 >> begins. And we're mostly stuck with it for the whole runtime.
23 >>
24 >> As I see it, I see no reason to keep forcing things like complete
25 >> glibc, ncurses and the whole other lot of libraries for the early
26 >> bootup if all needed is some kind of minimal 'mount' program (for
27 >> instance).
28 >>
29 >> In the ol' days I tried building a NFS-shared system and the main
30 >> problem was that some of early run tools relied heavily on the
31 >> local system libs and files before they were replaced by NFS
32 >> mounts. And I had to keep them in sync manually which is not the
33 >> most comfortable thing.
34 >>
35 >> I don't see how trying to fit the best set of libs and files into
36 >> rootfs can solve it. You either want for the system to be clean or
37 >> weirdly split to support various possible configurations. And
38 >> decide which are not 'weird enough' not to support.
39 >>
40 >> And really, most of the things about separate /usr are hacks which
41 >> were introduced because the system was incapable of a proper
42 >> rootfs. Read-only /usr should be read-only rootfs with writable
43 >> mounts on top of it. NFS-mounted /usr should be the whole system
44 >> part network-mounted (which would be easier if everything went into
45 >> /usr rather than being split).
46
47 > It seems what we need is an migration plan. Sending out a Portage
48 > News item, and correcting documentation as first step.
49 >
50 > Then giving people enough time to migrate. This would give us plenty
51 > of time to work on the details for moving the files over from / to
52 > /usr.
53
54 Again, not all of us are willing to migrate away from a separate /usr
55 partition, least of all when that is being "imposed" by some people
56 trying to "shove" their pet projects to others and when we don't agree
57 with or acknowledge the arguments.
58
59 > It seems non-problematic for new installs, as stages could ship the
60 > symlinks and files get installed to /usr through them, even before
61 > the packages are changed.
62
63 The symlinks will have to be part of baselayout as files get into stages
64 through packages and not through catalyst.
65
66 - --
67 Regards,
68
69 Jorge Vicetto (jmbsvicetto) - jmbsvicetto at gentoo dot org
70 Gentoo- forums / Userrel / Devrel / KDE / Elections / RelEng
71 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
72 Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux)
73 Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
74
75 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJOOn/LAAoJEC8ZTXQF1qEPOQsP+we6tifTVnCXqr46ajXa2Xft
76 NqXhJfxmONGbbhfDYPhoNiGK5ovojpoDncKEE0t158X35QfLRjqFqrudbPDUNzrh
77 /zEJmQYacZckyMT866PE2iJBovEA5ZBnXB8y6RBHJLH3ky5/dO8R92jHSnNihi1y
78 u639+dpRHP6cRQIk9i2sEHaph+bZo6e3X+GCT6FL63m4sNDSBfJGo4wtMewp/aDD
79 HS2Ya41WAt+SYA131QLcVwLhyDz7sRdQm1iR7W06iScMxgE/mKHF9S25NKMYf+H+
80 Qtd+PF1SLcxC1lKztPsmNTr1lpDLlAoO5OQzpOnXoPmCWvuzBVyrHfSPo+cxQOFM
81 6VA0mjdNODS4gbEL5Fu8Q/Asf3/byJ7gBOfLNuHkMksMfLSy/O0KXjx3fnmpj1a0
82 yXlt+iuer7z5rwuz7ZfXNCmw0DWzuMOUimz1jz0pUwTzXDD9zZJXKHOt/RR4oQb8
83 NLldmh8YBcl17r6l60H49GWyL8YiIhQetBZuNi9+Pm72o3vVsKmCnyXHP1Cf0CsQ
84 ziVy4+Lub2qSSQfndrTHnJ6rDIDFSLT4iZYRDJmlf6Mhrk7abogze/s0Vgfkfrfl
85 yJVNVPG3Evk4d1qIFROSmQhhu44EOkufhijYvytpCHeNLvWUupeaMZOchX6QUXp4
86 4FhE/udxLI1zpQtTHLbJ
87 =DhRY
88 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Replies