Gentoo Archives: gentoo-doc

From: Chris Gianelloni <wolf31o2@g.o>
To: gentoo-doc@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-doc] Stage1/2 deprecation from Gentoo Handbook
Date: Wed, 09 Nov 2005 19:56:13
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-doc] Stage1/2 deprecation from Gentoo Handbook by Arun Raghavan
On Thu, 2005-11-10 at 00:50 +0530, Arun Raghavan wrote:
> Call me an idealist, but this sounds too much like a "guilty until > proven innocent" thing. I'm a "normal" Gentoo user, and had absolutely > no trouble following the stage1 instructions. Let's leave the "the > user is dumb" assumptions to Microsoft.
As I've said 1000 times now, you wasted your time if you followed the Handbook. The whole point is that following the Handbook's instructions for a stage1 installation gains you exactly nil, but costs you vast amounts of time. The entire purpose of a stage1 tarball has been distorted by countless people recommending it as an installation method for everyone. The purpose of a stage1 tarball was for customizing your bootstrap yourself. This means *editing* and making your own changes to enact a build that wasn't envisioned by the Gentoo developers. As you can guess, this isn't exactly something we had documented, and for good reason. There are endless possibilities on what you could do in this script. The wording in the current Handbook on this really isn't strong enough. Were it up to me, it would say something along the lines of: "Stage1. Don't do it. Ever." It would probably also be in big, red, flashing text. I'll give you a good example. I have my own local bootstrap script that causes my machines to build multiple cross-compilers during the bootstrap process. It is this level of customization that cannot be reached during this early phase of installation that the stage1 tarball is meant to be used to accomplish. Running "emerge --sync && scripts/" is not empowering you to do anything but cause possible problems which are then pushed onto the developers as "errors" and "bugs", which they really are not.
> Instead, a prominent explamnation and warning about what doing > so-and-so would entail would be good.
As I have also stated before, I am looking at completely removing the stage1 tarball from distribution in the future. I simply no longer have the time to troubleshoot the countless errors that are reported as bugs, that are really configuration issues from the users themselves. Also, the net gain of providing these tarballs is at best minimal, and at worse very negative. We are all volunteers here. Wasting what little time we have donated to Gentoo tracking down problems with a broken process is not the best use of our time. Making new features and improving quality is, though. Any time that I spend working on a stage1 issue is time that I am *not* spending testing and developing. -- Chris Gianelloni Release Engineering - Strategic Lead x86 Architecture Team Games - Developer Gentoo Linux


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