1 |
On Sun, 2005-11-06 at 10:52 +0100, Xavier Neys wrote: |
2 |
> He wouldn't, that's the whole point. |
3 |
> It needs to be done becomes it is becoming a pita to manage. Sometimes, it |
4 |
> works, it has for me. More and more users are having problems because they |
5 |
> either try at the wrong moment or set USE flags that cause problems. |
6 |
|
7 |
Correct. As more and more USE flags are added, especially to packages |
8 |
in "system", it has become increasingly complex to ensure that the |
9 |
bootstrapping process even works. I have been getting an increasing |
10 |
number of bugs where we're experiencing problems like "emerge -e world" |
11 |
failing because of an unconfigured kernel. |
12 |
|
13 |
> > Actually, I don't understand the request at all, since it makes no sense |
14 |
> > (atleast from this email :p). |
15 |
> |
16 |
> Try b.g.o or -releng (dunno if the list is archived) |
17 |
|
18 |
I'm not sure if it is archived, either. At any rate, the bug lists the |
19 |
reasons pretty well. |
20 |
|
21 |
> > I installed Gentoo from Stage 1, following the handbook. I had *no* |
22 |
> > issues. I'm sorry, but removing portions of the handbook just because |
23 |
> > there are users who won't read (I know, I had a friend who goofed up 4 |
24 |
> > Gentoo installs because he was lazy to read the handbook) is *not* a |
25 |
> > reason to remove perfectly correct and easy to understand documentation. |
26 |
> |
27 |
> It also fails for users who do follow the doc to the t. |
28 |
|
29 |
Correct. |
30 |
|
31 |
> > As it surprises me. In case this does happen, What do they(we) plan to |
32 |
> > do for newbies wanting to do a Stage 1/2 install? |
33 |
> |
34 |
> They don't. Newbies and seasoned users should do stage3 installs. |
35 |
|
36 |
Again, correct. |
37 |
|
38 |
The real root of this problem is the misconception in our user base that |
39 |
a stage1 install actually benefits the user in any way. It does not. |
40 |
|
41 |
> > BTW, it so happened that I met Andrew Cowie (Operational Dynamics, |
42 |
> > Sydney) the other day here and we were discussing Gentoo. He felt that a |
43 |
> > strong point that Gentoo has and others don't is that you get to |
44 |
> > actually see the things as they happen. You actually see bootstrapping. |
45 |
> > And that is a valid point. Removing references from the handbook takes |
46 |
> > the oppurtunity away of learning all that the first time you install |
47 |
> > Gentoo. |
48 |
> > |
49 |
> > Anyone from releng here who can clarify why they need this done? TIA |
50 |
> |
51 |
> Using a stage1 simply has no benefit, it does not teach you anything. |
52 |
> All that typing bootstrap.sh and emerge -e system does is enlarge the size of |
53 |
> your ePenis. It also wastes your time because stage3 is faster, even if you |
54 |
> change the CFLAGS/USE flags and recompile it all. |
55 |
|
56 |
Heh... you just have to love when someone quotes you and uses |
57 |
"ePenis"... ;] |
58 |
|
59 |
> Besides, it makes the handbook shorter, easier to read and easier to maintain. |
60 |
> |
61 |
> As long as stage1 is released, the doc will be maintained in the FAQ but there |
62 |
> is no reason to burden the handbook and our users with this. |
63 |
|
64 |
This is pretty much my agreement. I see no reason for having the stage1 |
65 |
documentation in the Handbook. It is confusing to our users and causes |
66 |
way more trouble than it is worth. |
67 |
|
68 |
-- |
69 |
Chris Gianelloni |
70 |
Release Engineering - Strategic Lead |
71 |
x86 Architecture Team |
72 |
Games - Developer |
73 |
Gentoo Linux |