1 |
On 10/12/11 09:52, Raúl Porcel wrote: |
2 |
> |
3 |
> On 10/05/2011 11:43 PM, Sven Vermeulen wrote: |
4 |
>> On Wed, Oct 05, 2011 at 02:46:54PM -0400, wireless wrote: |
5 |
>>> What currently links to the Gentoo handbook for ARM is |
6 |
>>> deprecated! |
7 |
>>> |
8 |
>>> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-arm.xml?part=1&chap=5 |
9 |
>>> |
10 |
>>> |
11 |
>>> |
12 |
> Why not link to this doc? |
13 |
>>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/trimslice/install.xml |
14 |
>>> |
15 |
>>> Lots of new arm netbooks are here and no doubt many different |
16 |
>>> offerings are on the way! |
17 |
>> |
18 |
>> Raúl, |
19 |
>> |
20 |
>> Apart from owning an Eepad Transformer, I know nothing of Gentoo |
21 |
>> Linux/ARM installations. Any thoughts on your part on how we can |
22 |
>> ensure that our documentation stays of high quality here? |
23 |
>> |
24 |
>> Wkr, Sven Vermeulen |
25 |
>> |
26 |
> |
27 |
> Hi Sven, |
28 |
> |
29 |
> Unfortunately i do not have any suggestion of how we could enhance our |
30 |
> documentation in this aspect. |
31 |
> |
32 |
> ARM is very different from other, more common, architectures. If we |
33 |
> look at the handbook, we have some troubles at the beginning. Each SoC |
34 |
> has its own specific stuff regarding installation. For example, most |
35 |
> of the OMAP SoCs require an SD-card with specific partition layout. |
36 |
> Some devices have the kernel in the flash memory, some devices lack |
37 |
> flash memory(pandaboard f.ex), so the kernel+bootloader is in external |
38 |
> storage. |
39 |
> |
40 |
> Every different SoC needs its own kernel and unfortunately most of the |
41 |
> devices aren't supported in the mainline kernel(yet). |
42 |
> |
43 |
> If you look at the documentation i've done: |
44 |
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/pandaboard/install.xml |
45 |
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/sheevaplug/install.xml |
46 |
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/tegra2/install.xml |
47 |
> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/trimslice/install.xml |
48 |
> |
49 |
> you'll see that only some small parts are common among all of them. |
50 |
> |
51 |
> And although the tegra250 dev kit and the trimslice use the same SoC |
52 |
> as your Transformer or the also famously known Toshiba AC100, |
53 |
> different procedures are required for all of them, and the kernel for |
54 |
> each device only supports said device. |
55 |
> |
56 |
> These big differences makes one page per device the only option, IMHO. |
57 |
> I'm open to alternatives. In other distros, the use of |
58 |
> installers(ubuntu) or device/SoC-specific images(archlinuxarm) hide |
59 |
> this issue. |
60 |
> |
61 |
> On our case, we do architecture-specific stage3s. armv7a is one |
62 |
> architecture, in the market there are different SoCs that are |
63 |
> compliant to such architecture: TI OMAP4, Freescale i.MX5, Nvidia |
64 |
> Tegra2, etc... |
65 |
> And those examples i just said use, for example, different serial |
66 |
> ports: OMAP4(ttyO2), i.MX5(ttymxc0) and Tegra2 uses the default ttyS0. |
67 |
> |
68 |
> The current ARM handbook was written in 2004 or so, and was designed |
69 |
> for a device that is uncommon nowadays, old, and slow. |
70 |
> |
71 |
> IMHO removing the current handbook and pointing to one page per device |
72 |
> handbooks would be the way to go. |
73 |
> |
74 |
> Thanks |
75 |
|
76 |
Thank you Raul! |
77 |
|
78 |
OK so I agree 100% with what Raul has said. I think, as do many |
79 |
others, that ARM is the wave of the future, particularly for |
80 |
net-books, notepads and light weight portables. |
81 |
|
82 |
|
83 |
I think that if we develop/write up the intro for ARM in the |
84 |
handbook and express what Raul has said, the handbook can focus |
85 |
on the myriad of ways to set up the disc/ssd/flash/sdcard/CF/etc |
86 |
where the end result is somewhat functionally the same. Note |
87 |
the files systems chosen may diverge from the main stream |
88 |
handbook suggestions. We can then link to Raul's guide_pages |
89 |
(or move copies elsewhere) under doc_team management for |
90 |
completion of the install.(this is where the different |
91 |
offering will diverge (slightly) from the handbook's |
92 |
normal installation sequence. |
93 |
|
94 |
(another idea) |
95 |
Maybe for some popular Arm platforms we put up an image to |
96 |
burn onto the medium chosen as a way to get a baseline |
97 |
arm system up? This would come after some folks perform |
98 |
installations and somebody decides to put up an image |
99 |
to first test and then later link into the handbook |
100 |
as an installation option? |
101 |
|
102 |
A fundamental choice is to cross_compile or use native compiling. |
103 |
So the end result is either a system where the sources are |
104 |
cross-compiled on a host, or natively compiled and maintained |
105 |
on the target device. Many (most?) will be of the cross compile |
106 |
vintage, but, there is a new wave of ARM hardware coming, |
107 |
where native (in_situ) compiling will be a viable option. |
108 |
|
109 |
Personally, embedded Gentoo has lots of smart folks, BUT, Raul |
110 |
has a keen clarity on the issues and presents very well. |
111 |
So Let's let him think about it and suggest what makes sense |
112 |
and support it. |
113 |
|
114 |
Diverging from the usual norms of the handbook is something that |
115 |
this doc team needs to discuss, resolve or present other ideas. |
116 |
|
117 |
ARM is coming big time to Linux and if we prepare well |
118 |
it will distinguish our distro, heads and shoulders, |
119 |
above our (friendly) rivals, imho. |
120 |
|
121 |
Embedded Gentoo is very cool; a slick system to get |
122 |
many technoids to use gentoo on their embedded hardware, |
123 |
will result is a coup of technical folks joining the |
124 |
gentoo teams, imho. |
125 |
|
126 |
Besides, all of us commoners will get some very cool |
127 |
ARM based gentoo hardware to use and show off....! |
128 |
|
129 |
James |