Gentoo Archives: gentoo-doc

From: wireless <wireless@×××××××××××.com>
To: gentoo-doc@l.g.o
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [gentoo-doc] Arm Gentoo Handbook
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 15:30:14
Message-Id: 4E95B258.3040604@tampabay.rr.com
In Reply to: Fwd: Re: [gentoo-doc] Arm Gentoo Handbook by "Raúl Porcel"
1 On 10/12/11 09:52, Raúl Porcel wrote:
2 >
3 > On 10/05/2011 11:43 PM, Sven Vermeulen wrote:
4 >> On Wed, Oct 05, 2011 at 02:46:54PM -0400, wireless wrote:
5 >>> What currently links to the Gentoo handbook for ARM is
6 >>> deprecated!
7 >>>
8 >>> http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-arm.xml?part=1&chap=5
9 >>>
10 >>>
11 >>>
12 > Why not link to this doc?
13 >>> http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/trimslice/install.xml
14 >>>
15 >>> Lots of new arm netbooks are here and no doubt many different
16 >>> offerings are on the way!
17 >>
18 >> Raúl,
19 >>
20 >> Apart from owning an Eepad Transformer, I know nothing of Gentoo
21 >> Linux/ARM installations. Any thoughts on your part on how we can
22 >> ensure that our documentation stays of high quality here?
23 >>
24 >> Wkr, Sven Vermeulen
25 >>
26 >
27 > Hi Sven,
28 >
29 > Unfortunately i do not have any suggestion of how we could enhance our
30 > documentation in this aspect.
31 >
32 > ARM is very different from other, more common, architectures. If we
33 > look at the handbook, we have some troubles at the beginning. Each SoC
34 > has its own specific stuff regarding installation. For example, most
35 > of the OMAP SoCs require an SD-card with specific partition layout.
36 > Some devices have the kernel in the flash memory, some devices lack
37 > flash memory(pandaboard f.ex), so the kernel+bootloader is in external
38 > storage.
39 >
40 > Every different SoC needs its own kernel and unfortunately most of the
41 > devices aren't supported in the mainline kernel(yet).
42 >
43 > If you look at the documentation i've done:
44 > http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/pandaboard/install.xml
45 > http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/sheevaplug/install.xml
46 > http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/tegra2/install.xml
47 > http://dev.gentoo.org/~armin76/arm/trimslice/install.xml
48 >
49 > you'll see that only some small parts are common among all of them.
50 >
51 > And although the tegra250 dev kit and the trimslice use the same SoC
52 > as your Transformer or the also famously known Toshiba AC100,
53 > different procedures are required for all of them, and the kernel for
54 > each device only supports said device.
55 >
56 > These big differences makes one page per device the only option, IMHO.
57 > I'm open to alternatives. In other distros, the use of
58 > installers(ubuntu) or device/SoC-specific images(archlinuxarm) hide
59 > this issue.
60 >
61 > On our case, we do architecture-specific stage3s. armv7a is one
62 > architecture, in the market there are different SoCs that are
63 > compliant to such architecture: TI OMAP4, Freescale i.MX5, Nvidia
64 > Tegra2, etc...
65 > And those examples i just said use, for example, different serial
66 > ports: OMAP4(ttyO2), i.MX5(ttymxc0) and Tegra2 uses the default ttyS0.
67 >
68 > The current ARM handbook was written in 2004 or so, and was designed
69 > for a device that is uncommon nowadays, old, and slow.
70 >
71 > IMHO removing the current handbook and pointing to one page per device
72 > handbooks would be the way to go.
73 >
74 > Thanks
75
76 Thank you Raul!
77
78 OK so I agree 100% with what Raul has said. I think, as do many
79 others, that ARM is the wave of the future, particularly for
80 net-books, notepads and light weight portables.
81
82
83 I think that if we develop/write up the intro for ARM in the
84 handbook and express what Raul has said, the handbook can focus
85 on the myriad of ways to set up the disc/ssd/flash/sdcard/CF/etc
86 where the end result is somewhat functionally the same. Note
87 the files systems chosen may diverge from the main stream
88 handbook suggestions. We can then link to Raul's guide_pages
89 (or move copies elsewhere) under doc_team management for
90 completion of the install.(this is where the different
91 offering will diverge (slightly) from the handbook's
92 normal installation sequence.
93
94 (another idea)
95 Maybe for some popular Arm platforms we put up an image to
96 burn onto the medium chosen as a way to get a baseline
97 arm system up? This would come after some folks perform
98 installations and somebody decides to put up an image
99 to first test and then later link into the handbook
100 as an installation option?
101
102 A fundamental choice is to cross_compile or use native compiling.
103 So the end result is either a system where the sources are
104 cross-compiled on a host, or natively compiled and maintained
105 on the target device. Many (most?) will be of the cross compile
106 vintage, but, there is a new wave of ARM hardware coming,
107 where native (in_situ) compiling will be a viable option.
108
109 Personally, embedded Gentoo has lots of smart folks, BUT, Raul
110 has a keen clarity on the issues and presents very well.
111 So Let's let him think about it and suggest what makes sense
112 and support it.
113
114 Diverging from the usual norms of the handbook is something that
115 this doc team needs to discuss, resolve or present other ideas.
116
117 ARM is coming big time to Linux and if we prepare well
118 it will distinguish our distro, heads and shoulders,
119 above our (friendly) rivals, imho.
120
121 Embedded Gentoo is very cool; a slick system to get
122 many technoids to use gentoo on their embedded hardware,
123 will result is a coup of technical folks joining the
124 gentoo teams, imho.
125
126 Besides, all of us commoners will get some very cool
127 ARM based gentoo hardware to use and show off....!
128
129 James

Replies

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Re: Fwd: Re: [gentoo-doc] Arm Gentoo Handbook Sven Vermeulen <swift@g.o>