Re: [gentoo-doc] Stage1/2 deprecation from Gentoo Handbook

[Xavier Neys]

Shyam Mani wrote:
> Sven Vermeulen wrote:
>
>
>>The Gentoo Release Engineering team is pushing us to remove stage1 and
>>stage2 references from the Gentoo Handbook. They are getting too many errors
>>because the user is not able to fully comprehend the implications of a
>>stage1 or stage2 installation.
>
> Huh? What?
>
> In which case, how would someone new to Gentoo do a Stage 1/2 install?

He wouldn't, that's the whole point.
It needs to be done becomes it is becoming a pita to manage. Sometimes, it 
works, it has for me. More and more users are having problems because they 
either try at the wrong moment or set USE flags that cause problems.

> Actually, I don't understand the request at all, since it makes no sense
> (atleast from this email :p).

Try b.g.o or -releng (dunno if the list is archived)

> I installed Gentoo from Stage 1, following the handbook. I had *no*
> issues. I'm sorry, but removing portions of the handbook just because
> there are users who won't read (I know, I had a friend who goofed up 4
> Gentoo installs because he was lazy to read the handbook) is *not* a
> reason to remove perfectly correct and easy to understand documentation.

It also fails for users who do follow the doc to the t.

> As it surprises me. In case this does happen, What do they(we) plan to
> do for newbies wanting to do a Stage 1/2 install?

They don't. Newbies and seasoned users should do stage3 installs.

> BTW, it so happened that I met Andrew Cowie (Operational Dynamics,
> Sydney) the other day here and we were discussing Gentoo. He felt that a
> strong point that Gentoo has and others don't is that you get to
> actually see the things as they happen. You actually see bootstrapping.
> And that is a valid point. Removing references from the handbook takes
> the oppurtunity away of learning all that the first time you install
> Gentoo.
>
> Anyone from releng here who can clarify why they need this done? TIA

Using a stage1 simply has no benefit, it does not teach you anything.
All that typing bootstrap.sh and emerge -e system does is enlarge the size of 
your ePenis. It also wastes your time because stage3 is faster, even if you 
change the CFLAGS/USE flags and recompile it all.

Besides, it makes the handbook shorter, easier to read and easier to maintain.

As long as stage1 is released, the doc will be maintained in the FAQ but there 
is no reason to burden the handbook and our users with this.


Cheers,
-- 
/  Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/  French & Internationalisation Lead
\  http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en
/\
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