Re: [gentoo-nfp] drobbins, leadership, etc.

[James Laslavic]

A lot of people are talking about how "There shouldn't just be one 
person!" Well, couple things.

The biggest issue that these people have forgotten is that as it is 
right now, there is only one trustee. All the others have retired or 
been AWOL for a while now, and the same goes for the rest of the 
foundation, pretty much.

And if being democratic is the big goal, then don't forget that the 
community overwhelmingly supports his return.

If you want to create a system of checks and balances, then great! Bring 
your ideas to the table when we have enough people showing up to pass 
this kind of legislation! But right now, we've got to face the facts:

1) Things are not getting done.
2) Gentoo is losing developers.
3) Potential developers are choosing not to join.
4) The current Gentoo foundation has had several months to fix all the 
above.
5) Daniel Robbins offering to come back is not happening out of the blue 
because "he feels like he wants power," but is happening in response to 
the dire situation painted by the above issues.

There are developers who want to see him return, and there are 
developers that don't. This is normal. However, take a look at the 
numbers. The people that stayed when he left will likely consist of 
people that don't want to see him return because, after all, the reason 
they didn't leave with him is because they weren't on his side then. As 
such, it's not really very representative of anything, as any pollster 
or statistician can tell you. When you look at the entire Gentoo 
community though including all the developers that left back then and 
all the developers that do not want to join the current Gentoo, it 
overwhelmingly supports Daniel Robbins' return.

I wish I could see some people be mature and say, "You know, I 
personally don't think this is the best idea, but the community seems to 
think it knows better, so I'm not going to try to block the whole 
community."

Also note that technically, Daniel Robbins already owns all the 
trademarks and stuff again because when the charter was revoked, all 
contracts and stuff (such as the transfer of rights) was legally 
nullified. He's pretty much just being polite by asking.

In any case, whatever you believe should happen, we can all agree that a 
decision must be reached somehow. Debate is healthy, but we need a way 
of officially deciding what will happen. Perhaps an organized election? 
I mean, how do you want to do this? It's got to be done sometime (unless 
you're trying to filibuster all this of course, which would just be lame).

Sincerely,
Square Bottle
www.visualflavor.org


gibbonsr-ml@××××××××××××××××××.com wrote:
> Why does one person have to be the Dictator.  We need a single governing
> body, but `body` doesn't have to mean one person
>
> Have the council do what they do, manage the devs, but have the council
> report the foudnation.  Foundation members should be assigned areas and
> required to attend everything with area, basically a part of that
> board.  So the council actually has one or two members in the
> foundation, the userrel actually has one or two members in the
> foundation.  They report to the overall group what is going on in gentoo.
>
> If Daniel wants the join the foundation / trustee's, then great, let him
> do it from there with a team of people.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Senno During" <senno.during@×××××.com>
> To: gentoo-nfp@l.g.o
> Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 4:44:33 PM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
> Subject: Re: [gentoo-nfp] drobbins, leadership, etc.
>
> this is my feeling too. So far drobbins has given an option. i have
> heard good things about it, and bad things about it. Though, no
> alternative is known to me. i hope to hear about one soon!
>
> i also believe there will always be devs/users (are pretty important
> too i think!) that are not going to be happy with the choice that is
> going to be made.
>
> i do feel that Gentoo, currently, needs a sort of dictator, like Linux
> with Torvalds. Of course, you always hope for the right choice and right
> ideas from the leader then. But no decisions being made by a group, just to
> prevent a dictator style, doesn't sound right to me either.
>
> Senno During
>
> On Jan 16, 2008 11:09 PM, Sergey Kuleshov <svyatogor@×××××.com> wrote:
>  > I'd second almost everything Caleb said. I do feel, that Daniel should
>  > come back. And if he does I'll try to come back to the developers
>  > (which I left some time ago). not that I think this will make any
>  > difference, but just wanted to express my opinion as well.
>  >
>  > and when I hear peoples' concerns about handing him control of Gentoo,
>  > I have only one question in return - any better options? cause what we
>  > have now proved to be quite a failure.
>  >
>  >
>  > On Jan 16, 2008 10:07 PM,  <gibbonsr-ml@××××××××××××××××××.com> wrote:
>  > > That WooHoo feeling seems to be held by most, Honestly at first i
> was there
>  > > also.
>  > >
>  > > But now that I've calmed down, and started reading through
> everything I do
>  > > not share the feeling.  Do I think Daniel can help? Yes.  Should we
> accept
>  > > his current offer by Friday? No.  Why?  Many reasons, some having
> to do with
>  > > the fact we just don't know enough.  Another one is he is wanted
>  > > unquestionable control ... which is dangerous to give to anybody,
> no matter
>  > > how great the man once was.  Would we give JFK or Lincoln complete
> control
>  > > of the US, no checks, no balances .. no. (sorry to the non-us
> citizens for
>  > > that example, best I could come up with in such sort notice).
>  > >
>  > > I know Daniel can help, but I also believe anybody who is committed
> enough
>  > > can help.  Somebody needs to take this personal, and take it as a
> part-time
>  > > job and execute on actions, and be held accountable for what they
> did or
>  > > didn't do.
>  > >
>  > > The past is the past, both good and bad.  I think if Daniel would
> sit down
>  > > with the Foundation, trustee, council and even allow others to join and
>  > > listen (not speak, but listen) and then hash out a set of
> guidelines .. then
>  > > great.  But we shouldn't accept him blindly and unconditionally at this
>  > > point in time.  If Daniel doesn't want to sit down and talk this
> out, then
>  > > he doesn't need to be back.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > ----- Original Message -----
>  > > From: "John Alberts" <john.m.alberts@×××××.com>
>  > > To: "Caleb Cushing" <xenoterracide@×××××.com>
>  > > Cc: gentoo-nfp@l.g.o
>  > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2008 3:54:00 PM (GMT-0600) America/Chicago
>  > > Subject: Re: [gentoo-nfp] drobbins, leadership, etc.
>  > >
>  > > It might be prudent to back up your claims, conclusions, and
> suggestion with
>  > > some type of fact.  I'm not saying I disagree or agree with you, but
>  > > basically, all you said was "WooHoo! Bring back Robbins!"
>  > >
>  > >  John Alberts
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On Jan 16, 2008 3:43 PM, Caleb Cushing <xenoterracide@×××××.com> wrote:
>  > > > just joining the conversation. I vote to bring drobbins back.
> Even though
>  > > i as
>  > > > a user/admin and potential future developer, have no vote.
>  > > >
>  > > > I would also like to note that under the current leadership, of
> which I
>  > > have
>  > > > no confidence, I have no desire to be a gentoo developer. were this
>  > > > leadership to change and with some more improvement of my own
> skills I
>  > > would
>  > > > consider it. I of course do not believe this decision is based on
> me, and
>  > > am
>  > > > not attempting to inflate my own worth. but am merely pointing
> out that I
>  > > may
>  > > > not be the only person who feels this way.
>  > > > --
>  > > > Caleb Cushing
>  > > >
>  > > > PGP keys available on key server
>  > > > wwwkeys.us.pgp.net
>  > > >
>  > > > Due to low Internet availability I may not check
>  > > > my email more than once a week, and thus cannot
>  > > > guarantee a response time.
>  > > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > --
>  > > Ryan Gibbons
>  > > 817.657.1780
>  > > gibbonsr@××××××××××××××××××.com
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Sergey Kuleshov    <svyatogor@×××××.com>
>  > Jabber: svyatogor@×××××.com
>  > ICQ: 158439855
>  > --
>  > gentoo-nfp@l.g.o mailing list
>  >
>  >
> --
> gentoo-nfp@l.g.o mailing list
>
>
>
> --
> Ryan Gibbons
> 817.657.1780
> gibbonsr@××××××××××××××××××.com
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