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+gentoo-nfp , -core to bcc at the request of random folks. |
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On 5/10/08, William L. Thomson Jr. <wltjr@g.o> wrote: |
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> On Sat, 2008-05-10 at 20:37 -0700, Alec Warner wrote: |
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> > |
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> > Fair is relative. I think leaving the option on the table to |
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> > essentially barter is important. This whole 'ad space for 5.99' stuff |
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> > is kind of overly businessy and I think an informal approach gives us |
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> > more leverage and options. |
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> |
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> |
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> How do you informally run a foundation? A foundation is a business |
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> entity under the law. Therefore it should be run and operated as any |
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> other business. Formally. |
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> |
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> I have 0 interest in an informal foundation, agreements, etc. |
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|
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I don't see how negociating each agreement separately is less formal |
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than having The One True Policy that covers all agreements. |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> > I don't think other projects have problems with having things donated. |
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> |
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> |
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> We don't tend to follow other projects technical lead. |
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|
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I don't think finding sponsors is technical work; so whether we follow |
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their technical lead is irrelevant, but true the argument that |
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'everyone else is not doing it' is kind of crappy, so I'll drop this |
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point. |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> > I certainly see some value in approximating how much the stuff is |
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> > worth for tax purposes should we persue 501c3 status, |
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> |
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> |
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> It's pretty much required flat out. Even if we don't do a 501c3. It's |
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> good accounting and booking keeping practices. Pretty sure even for a |
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> 501c6, there is requirement for financial accounting and public |
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> disclosure. |
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|
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Accounting is good, no disagreement there. |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> > but I don't |
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> > think Gentoo needs to 'pay' for services (via ads, cash or otherwise) |
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> > if sponsors are willing to donate them (particularly if gentoo is |
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> > 501c3 and the company can write it off). |
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> |
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> |
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> That came up when there was the potential to lose a crucial sponsor, and |
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> the services they were/are providing Gentoo. |
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|
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Companies themselves also go under, but I'll concede that the point |
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you are making is orthogonal to that case. |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> > Sorry I missed the part where gentoo was hard up for cash and needed |
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> > to sell advertising on the frontpage to pay our (at present close to |
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> > non-existent) bills? |
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> |
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> |
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> If we lose any major sponsor. We don't have enough funds to keep Gentoo |
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> alive for even a couple months. That is a pretty big issue, and |
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> liability IMHO. |
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|
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I want to make my thoughts clear here. If Gentoo was a for-profit |
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entity that derived revenue from it's web presense then having |
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services randomly go down due to lack of sponsors would be a |
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liability. Luckily, Gentoo is a non-profit entity composed entirely |
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of unpaid (by Gentoo) volunteers and having downtime affects one thing |
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and one thing only, Gentoo the distribution. |
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|
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I could make a counterargument that instead of paying our sponsors we |
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should pay our developers who probably contribute more cash value via |
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their contributions to gentoo than any of our hardware sponsors. |
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While Gentoo can live on without major sponsors it cannot live on |
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should key people leave the project. Likewise the Gentoo foundation |
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lacks the funds to operate the Gentoo project for a number of months |
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should key members leave. |
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|
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In short we have the equivelant problem of cash shortage and inability |
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to operate the Gentoo project without donations. |
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|
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Which is in the end, my whole point. This is not a liabilty for us |
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because contrary to popular belief we have a good community where |
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people actually step up and do work and if those key people were to |
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leave I'm fairly sure most would be replaced. And if key sponsors |
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were to leave I'm sure we could find replacements. |
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|
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Both of these are likely without us wasting thousands of dollars and |
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ad space on www.gentoo.org trying to solve a problem that honestly |
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does not really exist and is just a 'business liability.' |
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|
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> |
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> |
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> > I don't see other distributions putting third party advertising on |
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> > their webpages; why is advertising on www.gentoo.org being considered? |
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> |
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> |
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> Because we have ads there now. I just quickly looked around, and only |
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> OpenSUSE has any sponsor type ads, or any ads on their home page. |
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> |
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> IMHO a sponsor giving us services worth $, in exchange for an ad on g.o. |
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> Is paying for advertising, just not directly. |
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> |
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> |
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> > What other funding options have you considered and why did you pick |
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> > advertising on our frontpage over those other options? |
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> |
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> |
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> We really have not gotten to the funding issue. Also this idea is not |
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> really on the table for consideration. I just mentioned it because it |
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> was brought up and discussed amongst the trustees. But for now, it was |
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> decided to not go that route. It might come up when we get to focus on |
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> funding. |
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> |
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> That idea just came up when we were faced with a potential catastrophe, |
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> and no immediate way to generate substantial revenue. To possible bail |
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> ourselves out if need be. |
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> |
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> However another thought that came along in an unrelated discussion. Was |
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> to provide terms of re-distribution for like our release media. Allowing |
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> pretty much anyone to sell Gentoo release media, shwag, etc, but with a |
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> ~20% net given to the foundation requirement. |
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> |
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> That was another idea I had in reaction to us possible having to sue |
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> people over selling our release media, and other stuff. If there was a |
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> potential bounty to be collected via any suit, due to owed funds. That |
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> might make it worth while for an attorney, even pro bono, to pursue. |
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> Versus them doing the same, for no possible reward. |
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> |
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> |
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> > What does offered advertising for non-sponsors do to Gentoos image? |
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> |
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> |
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> If it's tech related stuff, what does it matter? If people know those |
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> funds go to improving Gentoo, providing more resources, more free stuff, |
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> etc. I really don't see many having an issue. |
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> |
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> |
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> > I don't think many of our sponsors are equipped to answer that question. |
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> |
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> |
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> With a site ranked ~26k in the world. Our sponsors with ads on g.o. |
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> should know off hand if those ads are working or not. It should be |
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> pretty clear and visible in website traffic stats, in house questions |
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> asked, etc. Granted conversions would be pretty hard to track, thus the |
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> asking in house. |
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> |
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> But then again we could do a reverse experiment. Take down the ads, and |
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> see what difference it makes or doesn't make to our sponsors. |
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> |
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> |
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> > > Plus we never have the worry of services being yanked, because we are |
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> > > paying for them :) |
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> > |
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> > That would depend on the terms in our contract no? |
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> |
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> |
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> Rarely does a company terminate or not renew a contract to a paying |
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> customer. So as long as we are paying for services, and those contracts |
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> are paid ones, paid on time. I don't see that being an issue at all. I |
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> believe world wide more people pay for hosting services, etc rather than |
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> receive them for free or donated. Maybe not as much in FOSS, but most |
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> stuff out there is paid. Seems reliable enough of a way to go that the |
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> world keeps spinning :) |
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> |
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> |
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> -- |
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> |
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> William L. Thomson Jr. |
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> amd64/Java/Trustees |
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> Gentoo Foundation |
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> |
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> |
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> |
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-- |
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