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Nathan wrote: |
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> I'm not a _gentoo_ dev, so I'm not sure if my input here is welcome. |
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> If it's not, feel free to stop reading now :-) |
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|
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I consider it welcome. |
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|
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>> ...I like to |
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>> point at the literature. Think of some big management gurus, like |
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>> Mintzberg (could I mention another name instantly?), Davenport, etc. |
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[snip] |
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> |
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> This may be true in the short run for large corporations in an |
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> unfeeling 'command and control' structure. In the long run, I don't |
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> believe it's better for anyone. I've never been one to be influenced |
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> by Big Management Gurus(TM) or their short-sighted, self-serving |
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> doctrines. (Their visionary, selfless doctrines are okay though) |
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On the contrary, their logic is used on the long run. Though I can |
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agree with you that their methodology might seem a bit overdone here. |
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I'll explain lateron why I brought it up. |
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|
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> Lets run through your logic: |
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> |
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>> Ok, why you say, simple. Noone will accept a lead from his/hers own |
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>> team. |
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> |
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> Proof to the contrary: I've been on several small volunteer teams. |
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> In my experience, a lead selected by general consensus (or elections) |
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> is accepted by all except the most immature people who tend to have |
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> pre-existing personal grudges against the lead. |
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|
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yes, correct*. |
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> |
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>> Simple as that. It works like that in the real world. |
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> |
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> Perhaps with nasty corporate cultures and/or immature people. In my |
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> experience, gentoo devs seem to be rather mature, and I've not felt |
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> oppressed by the gentoo culture yet. |
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Yes, correct*. |
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|
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>> It's hard |
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>> for the lead and hard for the people to be lead. |
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> |
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> The best followers lead the leader with the best suggestions. The |
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> best leader follows the best suggestions of his followers. I work |
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> where I do now because I CHOSE my boss. If some jerk were appointed |
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> in his place (project manager over development), I would be outta |
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> there quicker than a flash. I would be ok promoting someone from |
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> within the team, or hiring an outsider that we all like (non-jerk |
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> variety). |
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|
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Yes, correct*. |
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|
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>> Hard because you used |
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>> to be on the same level, and had chats/whatever on the works as being a |
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>> 'worker', now suddenly that co-worker is going to tell you what to do. |
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>> And maybe you don't like it. |
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> |
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> _Assuming_ the lead has no tyrannical powers to force everyone to |
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> obey their every whim (I looked for Gentoo documentation on team |
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> organization and responsibilities, but couldn't find it.), there |
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> shouldn't be much to worry about. Assuming (again-sorry, where are |
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> those docs?) that a Gentoo lead consists of mostly extra |
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> responsibilities, and not of extra sticks to beat people with, being a |
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> lead tends to be more of a 'character building chore' for the lead |
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> than anything else. |
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Yes, correct*. |
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>> You used to be able to have arguments, now |
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>> you're just supposed to cooperate. |
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> |
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> If Gentoo policies _really_ say that you have to Unquestioningly Obey |
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> The Lead In All Things(TM), then I will swiftly disassociate myself |
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> with all things Gentoo. Do you really think Hasan and/or Lina are |
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> going to turn into earless monsters if they jointly become 'the lead'? |
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I hope, but I think you are correct*. |
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|
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*) provided in the case that all is well and there just need to be some |
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structure. |
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I have the impression that a few major things *have* to be done. This |
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requires 'action' and taking discisions that probably not everyone is |
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going to be happy with. I feel especially the last one is required to |
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bring this project *any* further, because it appears to be stuck on |
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little details, while the big lines aren't even properly drawn. Hence |
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my rather business-like approach, which may be the horror vision for |
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anyone. Of course I do *not* prefer a situation where people can't be |
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free in what they want to do for the project. However, you cannot have |
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everybody doing not so much (or almost nothing) too. I don't think open |
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source and volunatary work means: "do whenever you feel like it". If |
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that would be the base, many things would not have been here around now. |
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You need people that are passionate, and devote some time to a project. |
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I don't want people to relate this sentence above to this team directly, |
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for I'm having a more general talk here. |
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If I read carefully between the lines of some very active (and sometimes |
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counsil) members, I hear this complaint. We see this complaint when |
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people leave the project with furious last words on about 300 devs and |
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noone testing package X. |
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In my opinion open source needs to be managed too, because if it isn't, |
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it doesn't move or innovate. The Gentoo counsil isn't just put there |
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for fun, they are clearly chosen to get Gentoo move again at certain |
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points. They will provide some management, to serve a higher purpose, |
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which is a long term one. |
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-- |
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Fabian Groffen |
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Gentoo for Mac OS X |
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-- |
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gentoo-osx@g.o mailing list |
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