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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 11:32:34 -0400 |
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Andrew D Kirch <trelane@×××××××.net> wrote: |
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> We agree on very little, but one thing we do agree on is the quantity |
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> of trolling that DOES occur on -dev when these issues are brought |
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> up. Is there any method by which a discussion can be had on -PMS in |
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> a smaller forum, and a proposal could thereby be brought to -dev in |
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> several weeks agreed upon here, and subsequently submitted to the |
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> Council? I'm hoping this will reduce the potential for trolling. |
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|
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That tends to be what happens anyway, and I strongly suspect we've |
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already covered all the pros and cons of the proposal on this list that |
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we're going to come up with (although there're probably some |
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interesting viewpoints on the upgrade path that can be had from a |
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wider audience). The wider consultation part is necessary, though, since |
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I doubt anyone wants things that aren't a simple "there's only one side |
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to this" to go from PMS to Council without them having had a good public |
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airing first. |
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|
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There're threads that end up working fine on gentoo-dev@, and there're |
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threads where there's an endless supply of FUD posted to them. Things |
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that tend to help make threads the former rather than the latter are: |
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|
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* The initial proposal, and any counter proposals, being clear and well |
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defined, and not vague ideas that haven't been thought through. It's |
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possible to screw things up for months just by replying "well I have |
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an alternate proposal that involves frozbinating the glixnors", and |
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then not telling anyone what that proposal is. |
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|
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* Arguments for or against a proposal being expressed clearly and in |
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technical terms, rather than "warblgarbl". |
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|
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* Getting contributions only from people who understand the issue at |
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hand. That one's the biggie, and I've not found any way of helping on |
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that -- providing clear and detailed explanations of everything |
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has only led to people not reading those explanations. Some people |
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seem to be able to think that their opinions are relevant even if |
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they're commenting on highly technical issues that they haven't taken |
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the time to understand. |
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|
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* Where multiple options are available, having several clearly separate |
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proposals rather than trying to lump everything into a single |
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proposal that covers every option. |
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|
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The ultimate decision making process also hasn't helped. In the past |
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the Council has worked on a policy of "if there're any unanswered |
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questions, the proposal gets postponed", even if those questions are |
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obviously nonsense and have already been addressed twenty times |
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previously. This unfortunately means that the trolls can't simply be |
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ignored. |
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|
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Having said that, all it takes is for a couple of people to jump on a |
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proposal they don't understand and start yelling that it will break |
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their favourite toy, and at best the proposal then gets derailed for |
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several months before sanity prevails. |
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|
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-- |
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Ciaran McCreesh |