Gentoo Archives: gentoo-proctors

From: Ranjit Singh <ranjit@×××××××××.com>
To: gentoo-proctors@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-proctors] Proctors - An RFC about their role/powers
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:26:41
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-proctors] Proctors - An RFC about their role/powers by "Wulf C. Krueger"
On Sunday 10 June 2007 10:47, Wulf C. Krueger wrote:
> > > Do we want/accept penalties/remedies crossing mediums? (Do we want a > > > ban from forums to extend to bugzilla?) > > Yes. > No. If the offender does behave on other mediums, why should he be banned > from those? >
To make it simple, and to get across the message that appropriate behaviour is expected in all gentoo media. My personal opinion is that a higher standard should be expected of devs, so I'd support user bans in forums not applying, but not gentoo dev ones. They sign up to represent the distro, and the forum is to my mind the reason for gentoo's continued success. If a dev behaves so badly as to be banned on the user forum they have brought the office into disrepute. Devs can mouth off on -core or IRC in privacy, users have to interact via the forums.
> > > Do we want/accept permanent bans? > > Yes. > No! Everyone deserves another chance. >
Sure, but after say a year of trying to get along with someone, if they persistently offend and show no sign of improving, at some point the sanction must be an option. If others feel differently and that's the consensus I won't complain however.
> > > What audience? > > > Do we address users and devs? (council said everyone) > > ++ > For devs we have DevRel. >
Well, no offence, but it clearly hasn't proven enough. As was noted in a Council meeting, all the flames have involved a gentoo dev.
> > > What powers can/will the proctors have over devs? > > What? As above. > None. >
OK we disagree on that one, fair enough. I would just point out again that it's the devs who seem to have the issue though, with the user forums and mailing list frankly embarrassing the dev m-l wrt civillity and usefulness.
> > > Do proctors act on devs directly or through devrel? > > Directly with input from kloeri and g2boojum > For obvious reasons (kloeri retired), there should be no personal > involvement but groups only. >
OK, but I think those two have useful knowledge and experience. I guess I was hoping kloeri would come back at some point, not necessarily to devrel. Even if he doesn't, I'm sure he could be prevailed upon to provide some strategic input, and I don't think gentoo should be above asking for his help.
> > > Are proctors elected or appointed and by whom? > > Elected from pool: forum admins, devrel and council. > Elected. From the developer community. >
Well if that includes forum admins fine. Further, if you expect users to submit to their authority, we need some involvement in their election. Again I must point out that developer self-regulation simply has not worked. Maybe that's something to do with the purely voluntary nature of being a dev, but it still remains true, else the Council would not have instigated the proctor project.
> > > Who controls the proctors? (who watches the watchman?) > > Er we do. Got it? :) > The council and the developer community as they can vote for someone else > for the next term. >
Well again, I must point out users seem to behave better than devs, perhaps because they are not so involved. Further, I think there should be an appeals mechanism, which should be transparent and open, with input from users as well as devs. After all, devs tend to close ranks.
> > Flame on paludis minions! > Would you kindly leave this out of here? Thanks! >
Yes sorry. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Regards, Ranjit. -- gentoo-proctors@g.o mailing list