Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Markos Chandras <hwoarang@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 16:57:05
Message-Id: 4E47FE28.8030303@gentoo.org
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel by Thomas Sachau
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4 On 08/14/2011 05:48 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
5 > Markos Chandras schrieb:
6 >> On 08/14/2011 05:07 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
7 >>> Markos Chandras schrieb:
8 >>>> On 08/14/2011 02:07 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
9 >>>>> Markos Chandras schrieb:
10 >>>>>> On 08/14/2011 01:15 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
11 >>>>>>> Markos Chandras schrieb:
12 >>>>>>>> Hi all,
13 >>>>>>>>
14 >>>>>>>> This is the first of the items I would like to discuss
15 >>>>>>>> for the next Council agenda (or a later one).
16 >>>>>>>>
17 >>>>>>>> Some time ago, few people proposed to have Council
18 >>>>>>>> appointed leaders for QA and DevRel.
19 >>>>>>
20 >>>>>>> My first question: Why is your proposal restricted to QA
21 >>>>>>> and DevRel?
22 >>>>>>
23 >>>>>> Cause I believe these teams are crucial to the continuity
24 >>>>>> of Gentoo project.
25 >>>>
26 >>>>> How do you weight one project against another one? I see it
27 >>>>> the other way round: QA and DevRel are only important, if
28 >>>>> there is some issue not resolved otherwise. But many other
29 >>>>> projects are always important, since they have to maintain
30 >>>>> things continuously. While the council could still decide, if
31 >>>>> DevRel or QA are gone (they just take some workload away),
32 >>>>> you wont be able to get the council to e.g. maintain our
33 >>>>> infrastructure, ebuilds or docs.
34 >>>>
35 >>>> 1) If another project slacks, then bad luck for you. Just mask
36 >>>> and remove the ebuilds ( see recent zope thread ). There is
37 >>>> nothing we can do about that.
38 >>
39 >>> If QA or DevRel slacks, this causes even less work, since they
40 >>> dont even maintain ebuilds to mask and remove. It may result in
41 >>> less QA fixes or less mediation between developers, but in any
42 >>> case, where you need a decision, you could always call for the
43 >>> council. Those projects do just some delegated work, which is of
44 >>> course nice, if it comes to the daily work and also, because it
45 >>> reduces the work, that needs to be done by the council. But
46 >>> neither is unreplaceable and the decisions of both teams can
47 >>> already be checked by the council, so i see no real requirement
48 >>> for additional bureaucracy for those 2 specific teams.
49 >>
50 >> I am not talking ajust about decisions. If QA slacks then will
51 >> then Council step up and maintain the QA in the portage? If devrel
52 >> slacks then will the Council do all the recruitment/retirement?
53 >> These projects are vital for the project. I don't know how to
54 >> explain that in more details.
55 >
56 > Every developer is responsible for the QA of the packages he
57 > maintains. There are of course some mistakes happening and sometimes
58 > someone does something wrong (intentionally or not), but if there is
59 > no active QA team, this just means, that the users will hit those
60 > issues and report them.
61 Again, all the problems are not the same. There is a vertical
62 relationship in this case as well. Sometimes, you need an active QA to
63 fix a problem before it hits users (remember recent case with broken
64 python + portage )
65
66 > this is not the best way, it still does not mean the end of Gentoo.
67 Well, driving users away is not a good thing either. If you constantly
68 break things they will go away sooner or later. We have already lost a
69 great amount of our former user base and we keep loosing more and more.
70 The numbers of those who are leaving are certainly more than those who
71 are joining.
72
73 >>>> 2) Infrastructure is a sensitive team, and does not deal with
74 >>>> ebuild maintenance and portage directly.
75 >>
76 >>> And if infra slacks? Bad luck for you, just mask and remove the
77 >>> hardware? :-)
78 >> Like I said, this is not related to portage QA. I only care about
79 >> the /usr/portage/* parts and what users see from "outside"
80 >
81 > If the master rsync server refuses to run, this will have an impact
82 > at what users see from "outside" ;-)
83 >
84 Infra is in a good state so I don't really understand why do we need to
85 deal with this at the moment.
86
87 > [SNIP]
88 >>
89 >>> Maybe you should first tell me, how you define activity for QA
90 >>> (and DevRel)?
91 >> Ok, and active QA team is a team that fixes severe and other QA
92 >> problems within 24 hours. Moreover, an active QA team should be
93 >> there 24/7 for someone who needs an advice for them or needs to
94 >> complain about a developer that broke portage. If QA was active the
95 >> breakages from Arfrever's commits would have been spotted months
96 >> before a severe incident occurs.
97 >
98 > If your requirement for active QA is that high, i have to tell you,
99 > that practially you will never get the needed manpower together to
100 > meet those requirements.
101 >
102 >
103 I have high requirement ( which are non-realistic ) so even if we
104 achieve 50% of them would be good enough.
105
106
107 - --
108 Regards,
109 Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2
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Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel Roy Bamford <neddyseagoon@g.o>