Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Aaron Bauman <bman@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Cc: gentoo-nfp <gentoo-nfp@l.g.o>, Gentoo Elections <elections@g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 01:50:40
Message-Id: YOUIaw51VYvh5CV1@Aaron-Baumans-MacBook-Pro.local
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election by Matt Turner
1 On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 06:12:42PM -0700, Matt Turner wrote:
2 > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 3:27 PM Aaron Bauman <bman@g.o> wrote:
3 > >
4 > > On Tue, Jul 06, 2021 at 02:57:38PM -0700, Matt Turner wrote:
5 > > > On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:32 PM Micha?? Górny <mgorny@g.o> wrote:
6
7 <snip>
8
9 > In fact you didn't, and that is not the perception I was left with
10 > from our conversation. I suggest that you reread our conversation,
11 > because I don't think you have an accurate memory of it.
12 >
13 > 18:25 <@ mattst88> | I'm also disappointed that some Trustees that
14 > were elected on a platform of merging the Foundation into an
15 > umbrella... don't seem to have done anything towards that goal
16 > 18:25 <FreedomBear> | mattst88: It is a long process...
17 > 18:25 <FreedomBear> | mattst88: of course, I think some opinions have changed :)
18 > 18:26 <@ mattst88> | It is, but I see mgorny (not a Trustee)
19 > reaching out to umbrella orgs, not Trustees
20 > 18:26 <FreedomBear> | mattst88: he requested to do so and it was
21 > approved by the trustees.
22 > 18:26 <@ mattst88> | I think he took the initiative because it
23 > wasn't happening otherwise
24 > 18:26 <@FreedomBear> | Fair enough.
25 >
26
27 There was much more to the conversation than just this. Please don't
28 pick and choose what you present.
29
30 > Obviously the financial work Robin has done is valuable and necessary
31 > if we're to merge into an umbrella organization. I was not referring
32 > to him when I wrote the first line in that snippet.
33 >
34
35 The entire year was focused on righting taxes. This was clearly
36 communicated through several bugs, emails (from the Foundation
37 president), #gentoo-trustees, and -nfp mails. There are some emails
38 which go to trustees@ but these are not public and are communications
39 with the tax people.
40
41 > At no point in the conversation did you give an HTTP link. You said
42 > basically: it's on the Wiki and Bugzilla. Before today, there were
43 > only two minor edits to
44 > https://wiki.gentoo.org/index.php?title=Foundation:FoundationFutureState
45 > since September 2020. Is that an accurate picture of the Trustees'
46 > progress? I have no idea.
47 >
48
49 It is all out there. Go look for it... or ask for a specific link. I did
50 ask what else could be done to smooth communication. If asked, I would
51 have provided a direct link.
52
53 > There are no non-trivial changes to
54 > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page this year. The
55 > https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Main_Page#Board_Minutes
56 > section ends in 2018 with no explanation as to why.
57 >
58 > The Foundation:Main_Page doesn't even have an accurate "Last elected"
59 > date for the President.
60 >
61
62 I think this is accurate as he has served consecutive terms.
63
64 > I'm unsure what you find disagreeable about what I said?
65 >
66
67 It is the manner in which you do it. You throw stones instead of asking
68 questions or requesting information. If you care enough... ask. I was
69 more than willing to support with my broad offer and request to
70 facilitate better communications as seen on IRC.
71
72 > On IRC I asked how I could follow what the Trustees do, and you said:
73 >
74 > 18:32 <@ mattst88> | right. I meant, is there evidence of activity?
75 > presumably I can't just add myself to the trustees@ alias, so if I
76 > wanted to follow along I should... watch bugzilla?
77 > 18:33 <FreedomBear> | mattst88: bugzilla for sure. Wiki has the
78 > account information.
79 >
80 > But I'm not sure if Bugzilla contains everything. Presumably not. For
81 > example, it seems that a Trustee contacted the Linux Foundation in
82 > February and March [1]. I only learned about that because I saw
83 > robbat2 ask alicef in #gentoo-dev to summarize it for the Wiki. Robin
84 > added a bunch of information to that page today, and that's great, but
85 > probably insufficient as a general strategy for keeping Foundation
86 > members informed.
87 >
88
89 So, you would like a better flow of information. That is fair and should
90 be addressed.
91
92 > > Yet, here you are publically tossing out false information based on
93 > > your imperfect perception.
94 >
95 > It's probably not a great strategy to scold people for not knowing
96 > what you know, when you're failing to document what you know...
97 >
98
99 See above.
100
101 > Anway, I'm not sure what's false about my statement, but this is kind
102 > of my point precisely!
103 >
104 > I don't know what the Trustees do. I don't mean in general; I know you
105 > approve funds, etc. But like, what things have you actually done in
106 > the last $timeframe?
107 >
108
109 Do you have some specific question? Do you think we should be doing
110 other things than what we are tasked with as a Foundation? Do you have a
111 recommendation?
112
113 > The Council has monthly meetings with logs and summaries. Trustees
114 > have one annual meeting. Obviously the Trustees do things between
115 > annual meetings. How can anyone stay informed?
116 >
117
118 This is understandable, they have a need for such things as day-to-day
119 project requirements drive such meeting frequency.
120
121 Do you think the trustees should meet monthly? We have done this before,
122 but it was not very productive as most tasks, outside of approving
123 funds, are longer term.
124
125 > Maybe you could just clearly state what you've done towards the goal
126 > of merging the Foundation into an umbrella org? (I thought that at
127 > least at one point you were against that, so I'm not even completely
128 > sure of your position!) Maybe you're all working tirelessly to this
129 > end, but if you are, I'm almost completely unaware of it, and I don't
130 > think that's for lack of attention on my part.
131 >
132
133 I have not done anything to assist in dissolving the Foundation as a
134 trustee. I don't agree that an umbrella is right for Gentoo. We can
135 discuss this further on another thread on -nfp if you like. I,
136 personally, have stated this across many mediums.
137
138 The dissolution of the Foundation is what Alec proposed in his trustee
139 manifesto.
140
141 Aside from this, one critical factor of doing so (as you have noted) is
142 correcting the taxes which has been completed. This too was communicated
143 in official letters to -nfp and "President Updates".
144
145 -Aaron

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Re: [gentoo-project] Re: [gentoo-nfp] 2021 Trustees election Matt Turner <mattst88@g.o>