1 |
On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 23:24:22 -0800 |
2 |
Daniel Campbell <zlg@g.o> wrote: |
3 |
|
4 |
> On 12/06/2016 11:15 AM, Seemant Kulleen wrote: |
5 |
> > The larger philosophical question is: Are we seriously banning people as |
6 |
> > a community? What sort of community are we, in fact? |
7 |
> |
8 |
> I think that's largely speaking for itself here. |
9 |
> |
10 |
> It's clear that (a lack of) communication in this case and in Ian's did |
11 |
> not prove to be fruitful. I hope Gentoo can improve in its community |
12 |
> management in the future. |
13 |
> |
14 |
> I did not respond to William's e-mails mostly because they were |
15 |
> off-topic in my thread, but I hold no ill will against him and feel he's |
16 |
> just as entitled to a voice as anyone else. I think we're doing Gentoo a |
17 |
> disservice (especially in Java land) by not having him help us. I |
18 |
> disagree both with the decision to ban him (to outside readers: the |
19 |
> greater developer community was not asked for their opinion) and the |
20 |
> manner that William made his points (it was too much, too often). |
21 |
> |
22 |
> These happenings have severely dampened my view of the management within |
23 |
> Gentoo and I will be voting accordingly next year. |
24 |
|
25 |
You should really have tried working with him before forming |
26 |
an opinion. Let me put up a few facts for you. Some people may actually |
27 |
end up seeing some similarity between the two incidents. |
28 |
|
29 |
First of all, William's technical competencies were, to say, lacking. |
30 |
He may be very good in Java land but he is lacking in basic shell, not |
31 |
to mention ebuild. His ebuilds end up doing the kind of three-flip |
32 |
workaround for issues he himself introduced. If he was left to commit |
33 |
freely, other people will end up having a lot of work cleaning up |
34 |
after him. |
35 |
|
36 |
Of course, every deficiency can be solved if one wants to learn. |
37 |
However, William more than once shown that he's stuck in some point |
38 |
in the past and refuses to move forward. If you try to teach him, soon |
39 |
enough he's going to change to subject to either how important he is |
40 |
(and therefore he doesn't need to learn, you should fix stuff you |
41 |
think he does wrong), how bad Gentoo is these days or plainly to |
42 |
offending you. I think you have seen a fair sample of that on the ml |
43 |
lately. |
44 |
|
45 |
So no, William is not suitable for commit access to ::gentoo. We really |
46 |
don't have the manpower to fix all those issues, and I'm already tired |
47 |
enough after one ex-developer leaving packages that could have never |
48 |
worked (i.e. ebuilds that simply end up tripping on some 'die' |
49 |
in the eclass that was always there) -- and we (the Python team) kept |
50 |
hitting on those even a year later. |
51 |
|
52 |
Finally, William tends to harass people who step on his toe, which can |
53 |
happen pretty easily (i.e. via attempting to make him learn, see |
54 |
above). If you do, you can expect to be privately and publicly harassed |
55 |
for quite some time, at least to the point when he switches to |
56 |
harassing someone else. |
57 |
|
58 |
Believe it, it's really not nice or productive to be highlighted every |
59 |
15 minutes by some irrelevant, jerky comment. Or be a topic of every |
60 |
fourth mail. If you don't believe, you should try it. |
61 |
|
62 |
As a side note, I should point out that we already had a similar case |
63 |
in the past. I don't know if William would resort to that as well but |
64 |
the other person even went as far as lying to other Gentoo users |
65 |
and making them harass you privately. |
66 |
|
67 |
So yes, maybe Java lost some. Gentoo may have lost a few potential |
68 |
developers too. However, I believe that Gentoo was saved from a major |
69 |
loss of developers and contributors which has already happened once due |
70 |
to the previous person mentioned, and I'm pretty sure would follow |
71 |
William's staying longer with us. |
72 |
|
73 |
Hope this clears all the missing facts. I should point out that it's my |
74 |
personal opinion, based on what I've seen and heard. Hope I didn't |
75 |
betray anyone's confidentiality. |
76 |
|
77 |
-- |
78 |
Best regards, |
79 |
Michał Górny |