Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Kent Fredric <kentnl@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish
Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2016 17:09:34
Message-Id: 20161207060844.4c84658f@katipo2.lan
In Reply to: [gentoo-project] Cross Post due to technical component - Thanks for all the fish by Craig Inches
1 On Tue, 6 Dec 2016 16:35:12 +0000
2 Craig Inches <craig@×××××.net> wrote:
4 > Hi,
5 >
6 > I have decided to stop involvement with the Project as a proxied
7 > maintainer, and to stop pursuing becoming a developer. Two main
8 > reasons for this, one the community is at times openly hostile on the
9 > mailing lists and IRC, of which I have asked people on IRC about whom
10 > have responded this is the norm(once in awhile vents is fine it
11 > happens but this has been consistently visible) this is ignoring
12 > cultural differences that may cause misunderstanding; Secondly the
13 > community is very insular and unwelcoming to new comers.
14 >
15 > In twelve months of working with people only 2 have actively
16 > encouraged involvement (shout out to Idella4 and pacho for this), some
17 > projects didn't respond, or if they did they provided no details or
18 > feedback to those of us who where new and trying to contribute.
20 I'm sorry you got this impression of us collectively. :).
22 Its too difficult keeping a group of people motivated, tension free,
23 and productive in opensource ( Though I do get the distinct impression,
24 talking about the problem simply exacerbates the symptoms, so much energy
25 wasted this week on talk of CoC that could have easily be spent on something
26 useful :/ )
28 > don't want to mention names about the negatives because I don't blame
29 > the individuals; it too me seems to be systemic within the community.
30 > I have a few comments about how I think you could improve things, but
31 > feel free to ignore they are offered in the spirit of constructive
32 > criticism:
33 >
34 > Review your CoC, its open to abuse as pointed out on another thread.
36 I'm not sure our CoC is being "abused" as such. Though I do dislike CoC's in
37 general.
39 > Enforcement of rules should be consistent.
41 Acting as a moderator for any group of people is an entirely unenviable task,
42 sadly.
44 I agree consistency is key, and having clear guidelines for what is, and what
45 isn't "in bounds" is really helpful, but it always tends to fall the way of
46 good intentions, two people seldom see things the same way, and even groups
47 of people are subject to invisible cognitive biases and motivated reasoning.
49 On the one hand, clear and consistent rules give the "good users" a good
50 framework for expectations and helps them behave in ways that make the
51 community prosper, but rigid rules also end up with louts "rule-gaming",
52 where they find ways of being obnoxiously annoying and making everything
53 horrible for everyone despite it not being definitively "in the wrong"
55 Hence, a degree of liberal interpretation is pretty much necessary.
57 And pretty much anyone who acts as a moderator will find themselves hated
58 by a few who find them too harsh, I see this far too often :/.
60 But that's to be expected, the moderator is a custodian of the sort
61 of tone and styles of conversation that we aught to have in the community.
63 Certain people may fall outside this tone, and this is simply
64 a regretful acknowledgement that this persons conversational approaches
65 are unwanted in that community, and that perhaps, they could find
66 a community more suited to their styles. Hopefully, people
67 will be happier if they gravitate towards communities that suit them,
68 instead of expecting communities to bend to suit them.
70 > Review your recruitment strategies, and framework for contribution.
72 I agree, recruitment is probably more difficult than it should be,
73 but we're gradually making inroads, (Kicking and screaming?)
75 > might be of interest to some
76 > posters! construct a well reason argument - but be prepared to
77 > reconsider!
78 > Finally encourage Active involvement from all Developers in Gentoo
79 > matters not just in their packages, apathy is your worst enemy
81 Agreed. Though I've gotten the overall impression from a lot of communities,
82 that the regular need to be steeped in heavily emotional open-source office
83 politics greatly fuels peoples apathy, the social disconnect and inability
84 to reason with each other in mutually beneificial ways leads to field
85 narrowing and self-isolation.
87 ~~ "Affhyj, the mailinglist drama, screw this, I'm just gonna put my
88 head down and get stuff done instead and hope I don't make things worse"
90 > I have updated one outstanding ticket for bugzilla from last week that
91 > was assigned to me as maintainer wanted, and will shortly put through
92 > a pull request on github which updates the meta data for bugzilla and
93 > displaycal removing me as a maintainer.
94 >
95 > To end on a positive note, I was a user for many years and will
96 > continue for the short term at the very least as I think the concept
97 > of gentoo is great.
99 Thanks for honest and neutral feedback :)