Re: [gentoo-project] Fw: Your temporary 2 week suspension on interacting on the Gentoo Github page

[Dale]

Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Dale <rdalek1967@×××××.com> wrote:
>> Some of us long term Gentoo users care.
> If you do care, then about the worst thing you can do is make posts
> like this on a mailing list.
>
> Potential Gentoo contributors will read your post and decide to use
> some other distro.  Then there are fewer people making improvements to
> Gentoo, and thus the distro becomes less useful to you.
>
> This is one of those situations where talking about a problem becomes
> a problem...
>

So, pointing out that people care is now considered a bad thing?  Is
ignoring the problem and letting it go on for years a good thing? 

Rest is my general opinion on things.

I've used Gentoo for well over a decade.  I installed from a 1.4 CD.  I
think that was back in 2003.  At one point, I thought about becoming a
developer to help Gentoo way back in about 2004.  I even subscribed to
-dev for a while, to help me learn some things.  Thing is, it is what is
going on right now and things like it that kept me from doing it.  Given
that this sort of problem has yet to change, I'm still not interested. 
I'm disabled, I have time to help.  That's not what stops me.  What
stops me, is seeing someone who wants to help get shut down by others
just because they don't like him and in my opinion, targets him whenever
possible.  Especially after telling people who don't code or are not
willing to write code to stay out of the process.  Someone comes along
that is able, willing and wanting to help, only to push him away.  Then
when someone else puts in a lot of work, gets ignored and someone posts
what is basically the truth, he gets shut down. 

So, it's not posts like Williams or mine that is the problem.  The
problem is that the people that should be fixing things, or allowing
those who can to fix them to help or wanting their help at all.  The
problem with running people off was around long ago and it is still
around.  I'm pretty sure it predates William.  It even predates me. 

When I'm around someone who knows Linux and we are talking about it, I
try not to mention I use Gentoo.  While it is a good OS, it has a bad
reputation as far as staff and such goes.  It has been that way a long
time.  I know because when I do mention Gentoo, I hear all about it. 
Stopping people from posting about it is not helping.  People already
know about it.  To try and blame one or two people posting that they
care about Gentoo and some things need to change, that is the problem. 
Sure, some may not have the best way to say it but saying it sometimes
needs to be done. 

I skimmed that link the other day that started this.  If I had seen that
other person trying to figure out what was going on after all the work
he/she did, I would likely have said something if I had any information
that would help the other person.  Given what I've read, my post may
have been shorter but it would contain pretty much the same info.  I've
read working with java and, really anything, is difficult work.  Some
are harder than others but from what I've read, java is difficult.  For
someone to put in the effort and then get ignored, THAT says a lot about
Gentoo.  Anyone that is/was interested in helping in the java area can
see that the person was ignored whether William posted about it or not. 
The problem in my opinion is not Williams post, it was ignoring the
other person who put in all that effort. 

By the way, anyone think that person is going to put in that much work
for Gentoo again after it ended the way it did?  If I were him/her, I
wouldn't.  I'd rather blow the dust out of my rig, pick okra in my
garden or watch the grass grow.   It's sad that people say they don't
have the manpower to do things and then do things that run off the
manpower they complain about not having. 

What I wish, instead of putting in all this effort to try to moderate
mailing lists, why not fix the problem so that it isn't needed?  Why not
let those who want to help, help.  It's like spending time targeting
people and anything negative about Gentoo is more important than
actually working on the things he has pointed out which are real
problems.  If the negatives of Gentoo were fixed, nothing negative would
need to be said, by anyone. 

Do I think this will change anything, not likely but I can hope.  It's
been going on for over a decade.  I suspect the mailing list moderation
will start and then more people will step away or just not join.  To be
honest, I don't think Gentoo has the manpower to moderate it short
term.  Long term Gentoo will, people will just stop posting at all and
move on to something else. 

Dale

:-)  :-)