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On Sat, Mar 31, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Daniel Robbins <drobbins@××××××.org> wrote: |
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> On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote: |
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>> |
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>> |
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>> If somebody isn't an active contributor, then why let them vote? |
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> |
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> I have to say that I am very shocked by your response. Do you really believe |
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> that users should have no voice? |
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> |
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We're not talking about giving them voices - they already have that. |
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We're talking about giving them votes. |
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There is a reason that no organization I'm aware of (FOSS or |
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otherwise) operates the way you suggest: it decouples cost from |
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direction. |
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I want all our users to be happy. I want every single one of them to |
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get the distro they want to have. I want our users to have a distro |
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with no directories with "systemd" in the name. I want our users to |
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have a distro where every application is well-integrated with systemd. |
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I want our users to not be exposed to packages that may break. I want |
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our users to always have the latest cutting-edge software. I want our |
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community to never force anybody to leave. If somebody is harassing |
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somebody I want the offender gone the next day. I want all our taxes |
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to be filed on time, and I don't want anybody who doesn't genuinely |
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enjoy tax returns to have to think about our taxes. |
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The fact is that there will ALWAYS be people who are dissatisfied with |
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something you produce. They will point out that you could have done |
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things a little differently, and made them happier. If you produce |
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something that is free and worth a million dollars, somebody will |
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point out that it could have been worth a dollar more. Some of these |
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people will be vocal in their complaints. That is just human nature. |
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For the most part Gentoo gives volunteers the ability to work on the |
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things they're interested in. If somebody hates systemd nobody forces |
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them to create systemd units. If they love systemd they can go adding |
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units to every package they see. Users can then make choices from |
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among the ones we provide. We don't always generate the choices that |
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people want, but we also try to accept whatever contributions people |
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want to make. |
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When a user becomes a more dedicated volunteer we give them a vote in |
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the governance of the project. This is a commitment that goes two |
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ways. The volunteer has demonstrated that they have a larger stake in |
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the community, and a willingness to abide by its basic principles (the |
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social contract and code of conduct - neither of which are |
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particularly onerous IMO). They understand the costs of asking for |
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"free stuff." |
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Free is not without cost, and that is true of both beer and freedom. |
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Every time a user is given a feature, somebody put effort into making |
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that available. Every time a user is given a choice, somebody put |
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effort into making both the flexibility available, and each of the |
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offered options. |
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Some try to cast this as "developers" vs "users" - but for the most |
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part we use "developer" as an honorific, not as some kind of |
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delineation of skill. One need not be a programmer to be a Gentoo |
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developer, and I don't think that everybody gets that. Rather, I |
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think that the distinction is in "users" and "users who significantly |
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contribute back." There will ALWAYS be more of the former, and I |
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don't think that any of us begrudge them for that. The latter have |
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something the former lack: stake and reputation. They've invested |
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sweat and tears, much as you (Daniel) have. Gentoo isn't just a |
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plaything to them. Their name and email address isn't just something |
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that passed the duplicate ID check on gmail. |
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We all use a ton of FOSS, and we all tend to pick and choose which |
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projects we give back to for a million practical reasons. I get all |
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the benefits of openssl, but because I don't contribute significantly |
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to openssl I don't really get a vote in how it is developed. I |
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occasionally use other distros, and I get all their benefits, but |
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likewise I don't get a vote in how those distros operate. I |
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contribute back more to Gentoo, and as a result I get a vote (IMO that |
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vote is significantly less influential than simply talking to other |
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contributors whether on this list or elsewhere, because the reality is |
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that most of our contributors are fairly open-minded and interested in |
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collaborating). |
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Now, I'll certainly agree that we have significant contributors who |
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don't have the "developer" badge and I'm all for getting them over |
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that hump, and giving them a vote. That doesn't necessitate creating |
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a new class of community members. However, with that vote must also |
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come responsibility to the social contract and code of conduct, |
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because we all have to live with each other. |
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Apologies for this rather long post to your very short email, but I |
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thought it was necessary. Your idea is a simple one and simple ideas |
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have an elegance to them. However, Mencken rightly pointed out, |
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"Explanations exist; they have existed for all time; there is always a |
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well-known solution to every human problem — neat, plausible, and |
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wrong." |
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If there is some other organization that has successfully applied what |
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you're proposing for Gentoo I'm certainly interested in hearing about |
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it. And don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to dismiss Gentoo's |
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problems here. I just don't think this is the way out. |
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-- |
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Rich |
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