Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Daniel Robbins <drobbins@××××××.org>
To: "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@××××××.com>
Cc: gentoo-project@l.g.o, Seemant Kulleen <seemantk@×××××.com>
Subject: [gentoo-project] Re: A plan for Gentoo
Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 01:06:18
In Reply to: [gentoo-project] A plan for Gentoo by "William L. Thomson Jr."
1 OK, subscribed to this list so I can reply :)
3 There are some things I agree with to some extent in William's post and
4 some I do not.
6 First, Seemant is a fantastic guy and Gentoo would benefit greatly from his
7 return. He was an incredible asset on the project.
9 I am happy to get more involved with Gentoo. I've actually been working
10 with several Gentoo devs on several development-related things and plan to
11 continue to do so informally.
13 I am NOT interested in merging the Funtoo and Gentoo projects, nor in
14 making Funtoo a beta version of Gentoo. Not good for Funtoo, nor Gentoo.
15 But again, I am happy to get more involved with Gentoo. Let
16 cross-pollination happen when it makes sense.
18 I do see some positive things happening with Gentoo -- one is the wiki,
19 which is really nice. So I don't necessarily agree with the doom and gloom
20 camp, although I know that there is quite a bit of chronic frustration with
21 the direction of the project or lack of it, and certainly I have shared
22 that opinion in the past.
24 I do think Gentoo could benefit from some positive energy and some
25 additional support for development. I would like to assist with this
26 effort.
28 I think we do need to reach out to Google, who seems to have a habit of
29 poaching our developers, and work out some kind of arrangement of
30 cooperation. The sum total of stuff I've received from Google has been a
31 prototype Chromebook, a $50 prepaid VISA card, and a google blanket. No, I
32 am not making this up. I know these items were sent to me with the
33 intention of saying thanks, and meant as the kindest of gestures -- but
34 certainly, there are better ways for us to support one another?
36 Google has received some nice technology from Gentoo. The google blanket is
37 nice and fluffy, but I would like to see Gentoo have a bit more ability to
38 positively engage with Google and other organizations -- this was the
39 vision of the original not-for-profit that I created -- building the future
40 with partners who value free software.
42 Best Regards,
44 Daniel
46 On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 5:20 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. <wlt-ml@××××××.com>
47 wrote:
49 > I have had various ideas for Gentoo spanning back to my time as a
50 > Trustee. I was working hard them to make them happen and was making
51 > great progress in short time. Sadly people got in the way. I have ZERO
52 > interest in partaking in this directly myself. I maybe a lowly grunt.
53 >
54 > These are my ideas alone. I have not discussed them with anyone other
55 > than briefly in IRC #gentoo-java. No one helped me come up with this.
56 > I have no agenda, or role for myself. None of this involves me. I am
57 > just going to toss this idea and run. No further comments from me.
58 >
59 > In my opinion what needs to happen for Gentoo is it needs proper
60 > organization and long term leadership, period.
61 >
62 > Thus I propose the following.
63 > ------------------------------------------------------------
64 > ----------------------------------------------------
65 > - Bring back Daniel Robbins he becomes Benevolent Dictator For Life,
66 > which he gave up when creating the foundation long ago. A new
67 > position part of the new structure. I have spoken with Daniel briefly
68 > publicly in #gentoo-java a few days ago. He is on board, no longer
69 > bitter and free of other duties.
70 >
71 > - Council remains as is, and works with Daniel directly, each being
72 > basically equal. Nothing changes with council, election, etc. Just
73 > slight change in role. Permanent member in a sense, Daniel. But he
74 > cannot vote with council. Just shares in technical guidance,
75 > attends meetings, etc.
76 >
77 > - Foundation remains as is and also works with Daniel. Daniel serves as
78 > like President of the foundation, with other officer positions being
79 > filled per Daniel and Trustees appointment. Foundation spends money on
80 > officer operations and other things to further Gentoo development and
81 > community.
82 >
83 > - Trustees remain as advisers and stewards but are not responsible for
84 > day to day. They are to guide and provide wisdom etc. One new Trustee
85 > will be added for a life long term, as long as they see fit. Seemant
86 > Kulleen. He played an integral role in the early years of Gentoo. He
87 > has no idea I am proposing this, so I am throwing him under the bus.
88 >
89 > - Being 3 parts any two can overrule the 3rd. All work together with
90 > Daniel serving as the head of both. With all three being directly
91 > connected with Daniel facilitating such. No 2 cannot remove
92 > Daniel, just overrule. If always overruled obviously would resign but
93 > that is not the idea.
94 >
95 > - Funtoo becomes the Fedora of Gentoo. Experimental test ground where
96 > radical new ideas are tested and then moved over to Gentoo. All
97 > Gentoo devs immediate become Funtoo devs as well. Though not required
98 > to do anything. No bothering with opt out etc. Just connecting the
99 > two organizations and communities. Unite vs divide!!!!
100 > (This may even go so far as to say Funtoo is unstable and Gentoo
101 > become stable dropping the entire stable/unstable Gentoo concept.)
102 > ------------------------------------------------------------
103 > ----------------------------------------------------
104 >
105 > From there what is next is up the the Daniel, the Foundation, and
106 > Council. There is no further plan there. I have ideas but that is not
107 > for me to say. It is for the new structure to decide its own future.
108 >
109 > This will involve paid positions. Daniel will draw a salary, a
110 > reasonable amount to be agreed upon by Trustees and him. Before anyone
111 > goes crazy. Keep in mind he spent his own money to create the
112 > Foundation. Gentoo was his and he handed it over. I doubt most anyone
113 > would do the same. Most here will hardly give up their own roles...
114 > Gentoo's attorney for various things is Daniels attorney. He lives near
115 > the guy. Gentoo is still registered in New Mexico where only Daniel
116 > lives no other devs, etc.
117 >
118 > Also in most any country there were fore fathers/mothers. People who
119 > came before you are respected, have statues, etc. Like Daniel or not,
120 > he started Gentoo. He then handed it over and later started Funtoo. How
121 > many major distros have you started? Keep that in mind and show him
122 > some respect on that level if no others. Give him the benefit of the
123 > doubt, good intentions for all vs self motivated he benefits alone,
124 > everyone else loses out.
125 >
126 > Ideally this leads to things like bring back Gentoo Weekly News Letter,
127 > maybe with a bounty for articles so that is always well fed. Not to
128 > mention pay for editors. Grants for developer equipment, travel, etc.
129 > Working with vendors to get Gentoo certified on hardware and/or
130 > hardware to use for development etc. Things that need a legal
131 > representative and organization head. Just some ideas but there could
132 > be others. These may never happen, and others may who knows. Not for me
133 > to decide or say. Just some ideas.
134 >
135 > These are random thoughts of the good stuff. Of course lots of bad
136 > could happen. Though I really do not see how it can be any worse than
137 > the past almost decade now. Gentoo cannot survive another decade like
138 > the past. Hopefully wrong either way there. If Gentoo even remains in
139 > the US. Almost want to bet others seek to move it outside.
140 >
141 > Anyway that's my idea and plan. Do with it what you will. Having been
142 > involved and around I see good things really. If others will have an
143 > open mind and let others who care more about things you may now. Let
144 > their ideas play out.
145 >
146 > Daniel handed over Gentoo. He let the community play out their ideas.
147 > Why not be fair and let him have a turn again? I think things were
148 > going better back then...
149 >
150 > P.S.
151 > I barely know Daniel. We have never met or spoke directly on phone etc.
152 > We have had various interactions over the years. Starting with me doing
153 > research as a Trustee. Which developed to a mutual professional
154 > respect. I have not really ever worked with him much. We do not know
155 > each other well.
156 >
157 > I know even less about Seemant and few if any interactions much less
158 > publicly. These are not my buddies who will do anything for me if they
159 > return. These are just the right guys in my opinion.
160 >
161 > I myself as things have been and how I am seen and treated have no
162 > interest in returning. I may serve as a lowly grunt cranking out
163 > ebuilds and eclasses. Maybe lead Java direction but doubt I want to be
164 > team lead or a developer. I am a bit bitter from the last decade of
165 > mistreatment, public defamation, and being prevented from doing work.
166 > To limit the massive backlog which now is out of control with Java 9.
167 >
168 > Just disclosing I have no agenda once again. Nothing to do with me.
169 > Just an idea to save Gentoo and course correction. Every ship needs a
170 > captain. Two drivers never works :)
171 >
172 > --
173 > William L. Thomson Jr.
174 >
175 > --
176 > William L. Thomson Jr.
177 >


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-project] Re: A plan for Gentoo "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@g.o>