Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: malc <mlashley@×××××.com>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Handbooks moving to the wiki
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2014 19:46:30
Message-Id: CAPkQJpS9J6F_-fHKqeQmhW5wZqBhtMPD0d4yJpdLrCb1k5c1mw@mail.gmail.com
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Handbooks moving to the wiki by Andrew Savchenko
1 What about simple transclusion? [1] Example of first few handbook-chapters
2 at [2]
3 It's not pretty (the top TOC works, but the inline-toc on the
4 right-hand-side doesn't work) That could be prevented with some <noinclude>
5 directives on the source pages but I didn't want to trample over Sven.
6 Would that work? (And yes - a few other includes are broken because this is
7 rooted in my user-space and not under the handbook, but I think these
8 should work if a page of this type was included in the Handbook namespace.)
9
10 Cheers,
11 malc.
12
13 [1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Transclusion
14 [2] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Mlashley
15
16 On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 3:19 PM, Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@g.o>
17 wrote:
18
19 > On Sun, 14 Dec 2014 10:02:36 -0500 Jeff Horelick wrote:
20 > > > > In such cases I would recommend a Live USB (or CD/DVD) that has a
21 > > > > graphical environment, so that the user can keep a modern web browser
22 > > > > next to a terminal window, to ease installation. In that case the
23 > wiki
24 > > > > is perfectly usable.
25 > > >
26 > > > No, this is not a solution, because on particular hardware live
27 > > > media (live usb/cd/dvd/whatever) may fail with video or gui support.
28 > > >
29 > > > I had such problem this year, when I had to install Gentoo from
30 > > > LiveCD without ability to use any other host for support (reading
31 > > > howtos, googling and so on). I used SystemRescueCD because of ample
32 > > > set of debug, admin and analysis tools I needed to configure
33 > > > system properly, but GUI was just a failure due to lack of nvidia
34 > > > drivers out of the box. Of course, I can easily fix such issues
35 > > > when fresh system is installed, but while it was being installed I
36 > > > had to use what is available from the live media. And elinks was a
37 > > > great help back there.
38 > > >
39 > > > So it will be really nice to keep handbook copies outside of wiki
40 > > > interface. Probably a reasonable compromise will be to keep
41 > > > handbooks at the wiki, but to use some script to generate simpler
42 > > > htmls for out of the wiki usage scope.
43 > > >
44 > > > Best regards,
45 > > > Andrew Savchenko
46 > > >
47 > >
48 > >
49 > > I feel like we do not need to optimize for this case really. I feel that
50 > > the odds of installing Gentoo where you have no GUI (via either the
51 > LiveDVD
52 > > or SystemRescueCD), no smartphone to use to look at the wiki, no tablet
53 > to
54 > > use to look at the wiki (I'm not sure about elsewhere, but here in the
55 > US,
56 > > you can get a brand-new Android tablet for $40 USD at a physical store
57 > > (less online) and in the UK you can find them under 50GBP), no spare
58 > > computers to use to look at the wiki are extremely unlikely.
59 >
60 > This case was really simple: use of any electronic devices aside
61 > from PC in question was prohibited due to company's security
62 > policies. In fact this is quite common case when we're talking
63 > about business setups and not private workstations.
64 >
65 > Also I'd like to note that smartphone is not solution for people
66 > without perfect eyesight (e.g. me): reading too much text from small
67 > screen is either painful (with small fonts) or inconvenient (with
68 > large ones).
69 >
70 > Please note I'm not saying "do not put handbooks in wiki" — this
71 > is really a good idea to have all docs in one place; I'm talking
72 > about some backup solution for such cases, like simple generated
73 > htmls.
74 >
75 > Best regards,
76 > Andrew Savchenko
77 >

Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo Handbooks moving to the wiki Andrew Savchenko <bircoph@g.o>