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On Saturday, January 21, 2017 12:30:35 AM EST NP-Hardass wrote: |
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> |
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> OK, so clearly, these are circular. The point is, a requirement, is |
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> compulsory and obligatory, ie you MUST do it, you are obligated, you are |
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> compelled to do so. But if you are told that you MUST do it, what |
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> happens if you opt not to? |
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Again this is no about punishment. People are focusing to much on what if I do |
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not do the report... Rather than hey that is a good idea, we should see that |
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it is done. |
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> Now, that takes us back to the points made by everyone else in this |
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> thread... All of which are stating that they do not want compulsory |
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> reporting actions, in part, because they don't like the premise of being |
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> punished for failure to perform such an activity. |
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People have the idea that since they are a volunteer nothing should be |
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required of them. They should be able to do what ever, work on what ever, when |
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ever, how ever they feel like it. Any attempt to bring about organization |
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tends to meet resistance with many "excuses" as to why not. |
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> If you concede that you didn't intend to say compulsory, must do lest |
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> the person/project incur a punishment, then we aren't talking about |
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> requirements, we are talking about a suggestion. |
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People need to stop focusing on punishment. If all comply no need, so |
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discussions on such are futile and a waste of time. |
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It is not about punishment. It is clarifying what is expected, just do it, |
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nothing to punish or discuss. |
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> I hardly think anyone would complain at the suggestion of projects |
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> voluntarily reporting to the council for updates if they so wish, and |
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> that it might be useful for council to poke projects to remind them that |
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> they may exercise that right if they so choose. |
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Problem with voluntary is it does not create any sort of pressing need. If |
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they understand they are required, there is a pressing need. It should not |
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require punishment for compliance. It is voluntary to do such reporting now. |
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Are projects producing voluntary reports now? |
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If intelligent people cannot understand the benefit of spreading around |
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information. That is their own personal issue. This should make sense to |
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anyone, and be like news from each project. Anyone not wanting to inform |
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others of activity in their project. Sounds more like secrecy, or childish I |
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do not want to be bothered with that or informing others. Rather than a lack |
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of time or solid reason. It does not take much! |
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Part of the point of FOSS is having free access to the information, source |
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code. Thus we should have free access to activity just the same. |
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> If your goal is to impose compulsory behavior that goes beyond QA and |
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> other similar necessities of development, I suspect that you will find |
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> almost no support anywhere. As cited before in this thread, we aren't |
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> paid to put up with requirements, there is no positive reinforcement, |
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> only negative reinforcement, so adding barriers to contributions is |
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> ill-advised and will not be well received. |
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Again anytime anyone makes attempts at organization there is heavy blow back. |
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Though other distros do place requirements, and not discuss punishment. |
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"A big part of your job as Debian maintainer will be to stay in contact with |
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the upstream developers. Debian users will sometimes report bugs that are not |
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specific to Debian to our bug tracking system. You have to forward these bug |
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reports to the upstream developers so that they can be fixed in a future |
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upstream release." |
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https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/developers-reference/ch03.en.html |
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That seems like a pretty hard requirement to me. They say it is part of your |
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"job" and you "have" to forward stuff to upstream. That sounds pretty |
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mandatory, obligatory, what ever word you want to use, etc. |
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What happens if as a Debian developer you NEVER provide anything to upstream? |
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Their documentation does not cover such. People focus to much on punishment. |
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If the word "job" was used around Gentoo, the crap would hit the fan. The |
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Gentoo community seems to have serious issues with organization for a |
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volunteer project. Many volunteers have bosses, duties, responsibilities, |
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requirements, etc. |
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The comments thus far reflect more an attitude issue than policy. |
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-- |
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William L. Thomson Jr. |
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