Re: [gentoo-project] Representation of Gentoo on third-party platforms

[Rich Freeman]

On Sat, Nov 12, 2016 at 9:47 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
<wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:
> On Saturday, November 12, 2016 9:22:04 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>> And if the Council told somebody that they're welcome to stay in
>> Gentoo, and Comrel boots them anyway,
>
> You are still over simplifying a complex matter. So lets get complex, and
> waste more time...
>
> When council overrules Comrel decision, is the developers record wiped clean
> all history erased?
> Is there any probation period for the returning developer?
> What happens if there is a breach is said probation?
> What if there is aggressive oversight/monitoring of said developer during any
> probation period?
>

I think you're starting from the wrong premise here, as if we need to
have a million rules and then the job of Comrel is to follow all those
rules.

I'd rather have a set of principles and go from there, especially
since we don't get 47 new Comrel cases each week.

People should be let in if our sense is that TODAY they will follow
the rules.  Sure, past behavior should be considered in that, and so
should present attitude.

If somebody has broken a rule in the distant past, but has a clean
history recently, and seems to sincerely say that they intend to
follow the rules today, then sure I'll tend to want to give them the
benefit of the doubt.

If they say that it is a stupid rule and they shouldn't have to follow
it, and never affirm that they will follow it anyway, well, we're no
longer talking about a problem in the distant past, but a problem in
the present.  I wouldn't let somebody join Gentoo with that attitude
if they had a clean history.

Don't get me wrong, if they say that they disagree with the rule but
they will uphold it until it is changed, then that is fine.  We don't
have purity tests against dogma here.  Anybody can advocate for a
change in the rules.  However, they need to follow them until they are
changed.

> How will members of Comrel feel to have their decision reversed?
> Will they have animosity and seek revenge or forgive and forget?
>

Well, if they're following the rules, then they'll get over it.  If
they want to quit their jobs they can do so, we don't force people to
do things they don't want to.  But, while they're in their roles
they're of course expected to set an example, and if they don't then
they will be dealt with.  I don't think this is particularly
controversial.

> Why would anyone even want to appeal and continue to work with others who do
> not want to work with them?

Look not everybody in Gentoo is going to want to work with everybody
else in Gentoo.  For the most part nobody really has to work with
Comrel unless there is a problem.  If there is a problem, well, then
you need to find a way to work with them.  If you have a problem with
how somebody in Comrel is treating you then you should talk to the
Comrel lead.  If you have a problem with the Comrel lead then by all
means contact the Council, who is ultimately accountable for the
lead's performance once we establish a process for
selecting/confirming/whatevering them.  If it becomes a trend then the
Council can deal with it.

Ultimately though figuring out how to work together does become
everybody's job.  You don't have to like everybody who works on
similar things as you.  You do need to treat them with respect.

And over time there have been a few who for various reasons have had
more success contributing as outsiders.  That is fine too.  Ultimately
this should be a two-way street.  You should be contributing to Gentoo
because you find it useful and want to give back, and probably get
something better in return for it.

-- 
Rich