Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: desultory <desultory@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Cc: "Michał Górny" <mgorny@g.o>
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Appeals of Moderation Decisions
Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2019 06:45:10
Message-Id: 1f97a92b-9f86-e805-4961-3ce8c50e77ed@gentoo.org
On 02/04/19 00:39, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Sun, 2019-02-03 at 23:56 -0500, desultory wrote: >> On 02/03/19 07:23, Michał Górny wrote: >>> Dnia February 3, 2019 11:44:19 AM UTC, "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@g.o> napisał(a): >>>> Am Sonntag, 3. Februar 2019, 05:22:09 CET schrieb desultory: >>>>> >>>>> ComRel, as I have previously mentioned, engages in some extremely >>>>> questionable practices, though (again) to their credit at least they >>>>> admit it. >>>> >>>> And parts of forums should rather go away sooner than later, given how >>>> even >>>> moderators take part in highly questionable threads. That mess also >>>> reflects >>>> on Gentoo as a whole. >>> >>> Given how separatist Forums tend to be, and how heavy they are on infra hardware (not to mention poor security record), maybe the best way forward would be to stop running official forums, and let forums team maintain their private universe of their own pockets. >>> >> >> So suggesting that others should fulfill their roles before attempting >> to subsume other's roles is now "separatist" instead of "sensible"? > > No. I believe that having a number of developers who practically never > participate in Gentoo in other topics than directly related to Forums > and who show up only whenever somebody else 'peeks their nose in' to > make sure nothing ever changes is separatist. >
The correct term for your straw team would be isolationist [def:isolationist] not separatist [def:separatist]. Regardless, your straw team is indeed just that: a fictional dummy for you to besmirch which has no relation to reality. Even though several members of the forums project are members of no other project others are, and I would hardly count being a project lead as uninvolved in their other project. Even aside from that forums project members regularly assist ebuild developers, recruited and not, in #gentoo-dev-help. And, in case you missed it, also provide one of the two forms of user support actually provided by Gentoo, which happens to involve some amount of interaction with the user community. So the forums team is hardly a group of hermits in a hollow somewhere "who show up only whenever somebody else 'peeks their nose in'". As for the " to make sure nothing ever changes" part of your characterization, for one change for its own sake is pointless, for another positive changes would be quite welcomed. The test server which we had been promised some time ago would be a lovely positive change, and it needn't even be on additional hardware. Still, thank you for making it clear that you are trolling because of another of your failed proposals [reporting] which I had pointed out was, in the form you proposed, impractical and I had even suggested how it could be amended to be practical while you even then engaged in trolling. It seems that things would work much more smoothly around you if you were to disabuse yourself of the notion that it is incumbent upon others, whether myself or anyone else, to fix, or worse implement without fixing, anything that you propose. Also, your prior characterization of the forums and "how heavy they are on infra hardware" is distinctly curious in itself, as the hosting provider where the forums are hosted specifically donated usage of the hardware, hosting and upgrades specifically for the forums, and indeed had as their one condition for the services of the four machines initially donated was to have mention of their hosting service in the page footer on the forums. Of the four systems originally *dedicated* to the forums, three provide *any* forums services, while the other provides front end services for other projects. This description leaving out upgrades and such. So much for that characterization as well.
> And pointing CoC out at everybody who dares state disagreeing beliefs > with you isn't helping any fruitful discussion. Pretty much sounds like > attempting to silence dissuading opinions, again to make sure nothing > ever changes and Forums are beyond regular Gentoo 'politics'. >
If so, more's the pity. You might have noticed that I pointed to the CoC when individuals made comments which were materially counter to it, such as when a sitting member of the council complained of how part of the forums reflects on gentoo as a whole, then proceeded to make comments which were themselves flaming and trolling, which itself does indeed reflect badly on Gentoo. That being aside from the "nuked from orbit" comment which if taken as being explicitly referential to the most common source [aliens] of that meme would be openly libelous of everyone who has so much as posted there, though it has become a common vernacular phrase which is largely just a call for removal and is hardly even an emphatic form anymore. Even his comment about the forums feeling like the evil mirror universe would have been passable if he cited a reason, without that it is base trolling and should be recognized for what it is. If you want to argue a point, please do. If you can actually demonstrate that I am wrong, by all means *convince* me. Just making sloppy, unsupported arguments is not helping anyone. [def:isolationist] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/isolationist [def:separatist] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/separatist [reporting] https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/5dd32dca6e48ea5f1db454d68f07f9ec [aliens] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCbfMkh940Q