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On 07/02/14 09:10, Justin (jlec) wrote: |
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> On 02/07/14 13:04, hasufell wrote: |
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>> Rich Freeman: |
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>>> On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 2:30 PM, hasufell <hasufell@g.o> wrote: |
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>>>> So you are basically saying a conflict of interest can happen and when |
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>>>> it does, everyone will actually realize it and also act appropriately. |
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>>>> |
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>>> Well, if people don't do that, then you're up the creek no matter what |
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>>> system of governance you come up with. |
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>>> |
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>>> SOMEBODY has to make the final decision, and they can always have a |
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>>> conflict of interest. |
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>>> |
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>>> Unless half the council is in on the original offense, it really only |
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>>> makes a difference if it is a close call. So, avoid doing things that |
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>>> would tick off half the council and you should be fine. :) |
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>>> |
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>>> This is no different than a majority of trustees being able to sell |
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>>> the Foundation to your least favorite IT vendor. If you're going to |
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>>> vote a bunch of untrustworthy individuals into office, then you might |
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>>> not like the result. |
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>>> |
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>>> I don't see a practical alternative. The kinds of skills that you |
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>>> need to be a decent Trustee, Council member, or Comrel member overlap |
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>>> significantly. We aren't exactly a huge organization. So, we either |
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>>> have to accept overlap, or put people into these roles that we might |
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>>> otherwise not want to. There is also QA and Infra to consider - do we |
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>>> not allow anybody to be on more than one of these teams? |
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>>> |
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>> |
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>> Then I hope dilfridge and jlec respond to this thread, so I can make a |
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>> decision on how to vote. |
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>> |
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> Hi Julian, |
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> |
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> I definitely understand your worries that placing the power of Comrel |
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> and its controlling counterpart into the same person. |
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> And I thought about this before, but as said by others, there are a |
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> number of reason why the situation isn't as bad as it seems. |
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> |
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> Each team, council and ComRel consists of several members who should |
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> counterbalance any problematic situation. Two thoughts came to my mind |
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> here, should we regulate the number of people being in both teams? and |
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> should we exclude council members being in ComRel from any decision |
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> where the council needs to act upon ComRel? The first one would avoid |
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> that ComRel takes over the council and the second obviously would tackle |
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> your concerns. |
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> |
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> Has there been a case where a "conflict of interest" happened in |
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> reality? And couldn't be solved? I don't know any, but I can be wrong |
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> here. Nevertheless, we shouldn't forget the argument Rich came up with, |
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> we aren't many people and if there are persons who bring the competency |
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> for both jobs and are willing to spent the time, then we really should |
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> try to build on that rather then trying to create a problem. |
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> |
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> I am a doing recruiting, which is a subproject of ComRel and makes me to |
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> a ComRel member. But normally I don't feel responsible to act in the |
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> interpersonal cases. So in the end there are different types of ComRel |
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> members. |
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> |
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> In the end, I would look onto the person and not onto the tables telling |
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> you in which teams they are. There will be double seated ComRel+Council |
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> members who will be fair and objective, but there also will be solely |
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> council members, who will be pain when you need the council to resolve |
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> conflicts. So we should choose the right persons based on their personality. |
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> |
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> |
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> Justin |
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> |
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|
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I think a distinction is getting blurred between lack of integrity and |
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conflict of interest. You can have a situation where everyone acts with |
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the utmost integrity and there still exists a conflict of interest. We |
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vote for members of the council because presumably they have gained our |
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respect by showing objectivity, integrity, fairness and good judgment. |
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(Technical skill too, but that's orthogonal). This trust, which is |
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measured by voting, is what gives the Council legitimacy as the highest |
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seat of power within Gentoo. However, we know that no one is above bad |
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judgment, bias, self-interest, etc. If a person is put in a position |
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where the Council's interests are in direct opposition to ComRel (eg the |
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Council must censure ComRel), any decision that person makes will be |
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questionable --- were they really objective? This in turn erodes our |
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trust in the Council and its legitimacy. Then we have flame wars. |
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|
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Having said that, we can opt to not allow members of ComRel to be on the |
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Council in which case the conflict of interest is a moot point. Or we |
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can trust that the individuals involved will have enough integrity to |
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recognize the conflict and abstain. Or the rest of the community or |
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council can ask them to abstain. Etc. As long as the decisions made |
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are made by those who appear to be "untainted" by the issues we |
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shouldn't have any problems. People will respect the Council's final |
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decisions. |
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|
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BTW, the possibility of a conflict of interest exists between any |
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project and the council, Uts just that given ComRel's policing powers, |
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we don't want too much concentration of power in a few individuals. |
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|
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-- |
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Anthony G. Basile, Ph.D. |
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Gentoo Linux Developer [Hardened] |
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E-Mail : blueness@g.o |
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GnuPG FP : 1FED FAD9 D82C 52A5 3BAB DC79 9384 FA6E F52D 4BBA |
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GnuPG ID : F52D4BBA |