Re: Shutting down the Off the Wall (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items ...)

[desultory]

On 12/12/20 20:50, Alec Warner wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 2:23 PM Michał Górny <mgorny@g.o> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2020-12-12 at 14:42 +0000, Roy Bamford wrote:
>>> Now we have a council member appealing directly to council again ...
>>> that sends the message to the community, yet again, that the
>>> processes that council are supposed to enforce don't apply to
>>> council
>>> members.
>>> Will the damage from that message ever be undone?
>>
>> Is this really a message sent 'by the event', or a deliberate FUD
>> spread by people who don't like the message?  Because when people start
>> disputing the process and not the actual arguments, the message I get
>> is 'they are right and we can't argue with that, so let's try to sweep
>> it under the rug'.  Then we get walls of meaningless text, arguments
>> about the process, conflicts of interest, etc.
>>
>
> When a group uses their powers, IMHO, the process is important to provide a
> justification of using said powers. Otherwise we lose faith in the
> institution because instead of using its powers to solve problems, it uses
> its powers in an arbitrarily and poorly justified way. This is why people
> care about the process.
>
> I even agree we should do something about the forum; but my expectation is
> more messages like the one whissi wrote (where we actually attempt to
> resolve the issue) and less the dilfridge message. I assume Dilfridge did
> try to work with the forums-mods, but if he did it was not clear what was
> discussed, proposed, or otherwise. If I'm a council member, what facts am I
> supposed to use to make a decision? Certainly dilfridge's email is not
> sufficient to really make one one way or the other...there are not enough
> facts there to justify action IMHO. It's not even clear *who* owns the
> problem.
>
Your assumption is, alas, incorrect; dilfridge has not attempted to work
with moderators in any manner which I have been able to discern.

> If we had said "Hey forums team, you have a CoC problem in OTW, you have
> six months to implement moderation in OTW that meets our requirements or we
> will shut off OTW" then I think it clearly assigns the problem (ball in
> forum-mods court) and there is a clear timeline to resolve the issue and we
> could add more text around the actual requirements (and again if you
> reference whissi's latest mail you see more of this information and tone.)
> However in the previous bug report we didn't even accurately describe the
> problem, assign it to anyone, or provide any timeline to resolution.
>
> -A
>
>
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Michał Górny
>>
>>
>>
>>
>