Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items - Council meeting 2013-09-10

[Daniel Campbell]

On 09/19/2013 07:37 AM, Tom Wijsman wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 23:33:47 -0500
> Daniel Campbell <lists@××××××××.us> wrote:
>
>> On 09/18/2013 05:42 AM, heroxbd@g.o wrote:
>>> Hey Daniel,
>>>
>>> Daniel Campbell <lists@××××××××.us> writes:
>>>
>>>> As a user, I've considered becoming a developer but the process is
>>>> rather contrived and multi-tiered.
>>>
>>> Would you like to try again? Where did you get stuck last time?
>>>
>>
>> The organizational and social aspects of it pushed me away the most.
>> I'm completely okay with a test that ensures that you either know what
>> you're doing or are resourceful enough to figure it out when in doubt.
>> It's Gentoo as an organization that seems foreboding and intimidating.
>> One must wonder if they should bother applying, if they're good
>> enough, if a mistake would end the work they put in to become a
>> developer, etc.
>
> It kind of depends on how you think about it; if I were to wrote the
> a paragraph about the same matter, but in a different way it would be:
>
> The organizational and social aspects is what would attract me the most.
> I'm not okay with a test that just ensures that you know what you do or
> are resourceful enough to figure things out when in doubt; no, I would
> love Gentoo as an organization to help me obtain more experience on top
> of that. One shouldn't bother about being good enough for applying, the
> recruitment helps ensure that the most mistakes aren't made.
>
> In other words, you shouldn't see the recruitment quiz and reviews as a
> driver exam where you either pass or fail; no, we let you test drive on
> a consolidated piece of the world and open the gates to the real world
> once you have become acquainted and sharpened your driving skills.
>
> If you then make a careful accidental mistake, no need to worry.
>

That's a bit reassuring. It's difficult to understand an organization
from the outside, so forgive me if I (or others) get the wrong idea.

>> Additionally, I couldn't really come up with a solid goal to work on;
>> an answer to "why do you want to become a developer?" My computing
>> interests lie in problems that are already solved for the most part
>> (IOW I don't know how to find an unsolved problem). My favorite
>> software already has capable maintainers on Gentoo, as well.
>
> Yes, that's one of the reasons people apply; but with the amount of
> developers for most software that's going to be true. Regardless of
> that, a particular piece of software being already maintained doesn't
> mean that you can't help maintain them; there's always something to do
> in those areas so manpower is often welcome. Contacting the people to
> see if there are things to do, whether you could join a herd (or
> maintain a package) once you become a Gentoo Developer and more are
> possible things you could do; don't assume that they will say "no". :)
>
>> So if I
>> found myself as a developer, I don't know what I would work on. I'm
>> interested in writing better guides for things, making corrections,
>> updating out-dated stuff, and wouldn't mind adding new packages to
>> portage, but that strikes me as something general that all developers
>> pretty much do already.
>
> Yes, that's the second reason; helping out people or giving back to the
> community are things you could do, and if you want to do just that
> there's certainly always something to do in that terrain.
>
>> I've thought about giving it a try, but I don't want to waste people's
>> time if someone more useful applies. This conflicts with my desire to
>> learn and improve, because you can't learn everything alone. So I'm
>> stuck.
>
> We don't rank our developers; so, if you maintain a particular package
> or are part of a particular herd you won't be removed from that any
> time soon and I see no reason that it would be a waste of time.
> Everything you do helps yourself as well as Gentoo Linux; even if you
> don't think it does, it actually does; both gain experience.
>
>> Sorry for the long, personal answer. I would've responded sooner but I
>> wanted to give the question some thought.
>
> No problem, you also clarify matters for other possible future recruits
> so this could perhaps be used as a sub thread to point people with such
> wonders to in the future. Or we could capture this into the Gentoo Wiki.
>

Thanks for the clarification and insight. I don't mind if you use
content from this discussion on the wiki or other documentation to
better educate users. This list probably doesn't get a lot of user
exposure, so something meant for their eyes could change the mindset of
some users and motivate them to step up and lighten the load.

My apologies to Rich for derailing the thread. It's a habit I'm trying
to get rid of.