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On 05/22/2013 04:48 PM, Luca Barbato wrote: |
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> On 05/22/2013 04:25 PM, hasufell wrote: |
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>> That's why I explained what I meant in more detail. It's not about |
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>> establishing a happy environment, but a professionel environment. We |
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>> are not primarily devs to have fun alltogether and make friends and |
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>> buddies. |
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>> Ofc, if that comes with our work, then it's fine. |
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> |
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> You got your priorities wrong then. |
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> |
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> You must get along with people, "professional" means nothing. |
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> |
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|
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Professional means to get along with people despite your personal |
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opinion/feelings about them, to point out their mistakes and to admit |
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your own mistakes. |
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So I think I got my priorities right. |
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>> In many professional environments yelling is the most efficient way to |
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>> prevent mistakes from happening again. It still does not imply insults |
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>> or disrespecting another person. |
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> |
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> Not productive, not nice, not here please. |
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> |
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I definitely made different experiences about that and I will continue |
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that behavior, because it does not collide with the code of conduct. |
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Example: when you break my ebuilds I will yell at you depending on how |
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severe that breakage is: |
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flaming/trolling? -- no, just being blunt and honest with you |
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Posting/participating only to incite drama or negativity? -- no, I'd PM |
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you anyway |
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Being judgmental, mean-spirited or insulting -- no, I'm only interested |
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in resolving the issue and to make sure it does not happen again |
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Constantly purveying misinformation -- unrelated |
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>> It's about making a lot of noise if something bad happened. And making |
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>> NO noise if nothing bad happened. |
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>> The latter is quite important too. |
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> |
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> Making noise just makes difficult to get any kind of signal. |
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> |
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FOSS does not work without noise, which just means pulling attention for |
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important problems and making people aware of their mistakes. |
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If you do not make noise, people will ignore the issue. |
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>> In the end it still does affect thousands(?) of users if we do stupid |
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>> things. |
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> |
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> Not really, we have layers of protection to avoid that. Being careful is |
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> what prevents us from impacting users, not being rude. |
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> |
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There is no layer of protection against eclass commits that break the tree. |
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If nobody yells when that happens, then it will happen again. And it does. |
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On 05/22/2013 05:10 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:> On Wed, May 22, 2013 at |
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10:48 AM, Luca Barbato <lu_zero@g.o> wrote: |
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>> On 05/22/2013 04:25 PM, hasufell wrote: |
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>>> In many professional environments yelling is the most efficient way to |
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>>> prevent mistakes from happening again. It still does not imply insults |
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>>> or disrespecting another person. |
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>> |
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>> Not productive, not nice, not here please. |
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> |
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> Ditto. And frankly, I've never worked in a corporation that would |
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> consider yelling acceptable behavior under any circumstances beyond |
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> overcoming ambient noise (the literal kind - like in a machine room). |
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> |
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Now I am unsure if you understood what I meant with "yelling", since I'm |
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not a native english speaker. |
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I do not mean shouting, but to make sure the other person is aware that |
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I am angry about what happened. |
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I have never worked anywhere, where this was not part of the hierarchy. |
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If you mess up and cause a hell of trouble my boss would not just |
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approach me and say "hey dude, there was a little problem". |
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I find parts of this discussion really silly to be honest. |
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If someone gets angry with me for a technical reason I do not have _any_ |
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problem with that. |
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The problem is rather that people get angry without any technical |
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reason. Now I have a few theories why that is, but I'll keep that to myself. |