Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Steve Long <slong@××××××××××××××××××.uk>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 20:06:14
Message-Id: g0fgmn$in7$
1 Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
3 > There are few brutal developers here that make Gentoo a terrible place
4 > to be. Well... I can handle few developers, but when devrel enters the
5 > picture with arguments such as "volunteers can do crappy job as long
6 > as they have fun" enough is enough.
7 >
8 Ouch.
10 > I signed-up to work on distribution if I have fun in the process it is
11 > great! But always keep in mind the delivery I provide to users.
12 >
13 Thanks for that, believe me we appreciate the few who speak out in favour of
14 that (except when it's a naked attempt at politicking ofc.)
16 > Gentoo has some fundamental issues, the obvious one is lack of
17 > leadership. There is *NOBODY* that formally responsible or cares about
18 > the delivery Gentoo (AS A WHOLE) provide to its users. The council is
19 > just a political body that discuss the void issues.
20 >
21 Well I'd hope the new Trustees would. They still need a month or two to
22 agree constitutional matters aiui. Not that that precludes them from acting
23 on any non-technical issues.
25 > As a result the laud and brutal developers dictate the tune. With no
26 > proper mechanism to decide if a decision that was taken aligns with
27 > Gentoo goals.
28 >
29 > The devrel process is ridiculous, as proxy between developers without
30 > ability to determine anything does not help anyone.
31 >
32 Hmm have to admit I haven't had much fun with devrel (users are allowed to
33 complain via devrel, so long as they've gone thru userrel which believe me
34 is toothless based on my experience.) Seems like devrel has too much say
35 and userrel too little?
37 > During the short time I was around Gentoo lost some of the best
38 > developers that were around, due to similar reasons.
39 >
40 > If Gentoo community cannot provide its own goals, at least it should
41 > embrace standards. Compliant to standards may resolve many conflicts.
42 > Roy worked hard to make Gentoo POSIX shell compliant, but this was not
43 > accepted, but imagine fully Gentoo work with busybox based system,
44 > isn't this an advantage we have? especially on small systems.
45 Sure it would be. But c'mon man you really don't need full toolchain build
46 capability on your *embedded* system. Anyone who tells you you do either
47 has an ulterior motive or is simply ignorant. And no, you don't need it on
48 your mobile phone either ;) Weigh that up against the inconvenience of only
49 writing in sh. (Yeah you can do it, but you're using the lowest common
50 denominator from about 20 years ago.) Now zsh and ksh builds, *that* would
51 be fun ;)
53 > I
54 > appreciate flameeyes work on reducing the system size, I am aware how
55 > hard it is. There are new violations of HFS in Gentoo, but nobody
56 > cares.
57 >
58 Well FHS is good and all, but some of it's questionable (like sticking all
59 of /usr/etc in /etc instead of just allowing an admin to symlink if he's
60 that lazy.)
62 > Jacub, one of the best developers around that actually cared about the
63 > service we provide to our users was suspended while trying to do so,
64 > and now he is not active anymore.
65 >
66 Yeah they'll fsck up quick without him imo. They did when they suspended
67 him, and they weren't exactly gracious about asking him back, despite their
68 clear desperation. Seems like pride is the hardest thing to swallow ;)
70 > Gentoo is built on a lot of inexperienced students
71 ++ NeddySeagoon talks about this a lot.
73 > Have fun,
74 > Alon.
75 Thanks for all the work you put in (same to r3pek.) I hope they're still
76 doing the "freeze your acct for 30 days just in case you come back" thing.
78 Regards,
79 steveL.
82 --
83 gentoo-project@l.g.o mailing list


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust Ciaran McCreesh <ciaran.mccreesh@××××××××××.com>
Re: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust Denis Dupeyron <calchan@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust "Bo Ørsted Andresen" <zlin@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-project] Another 2 bite the dust "William L. Thomson Jr." <wltjr@g.o>