1 |
HI Andreas, |
2 |
|
3 |
I am guessing the 'oldtimers' where the ones who sort of took control after |
4 |
I left, in which case, I agree -- Gentoo absolutely needs to be egalitarian |
5 |
in its approach and consistent in its policies. While the one-BDFL model |
6 |
*might* be a project structure that can work (it works for Funtoo, but |
7 |
likely not Gentoo -- certainly not now) -- when you have a horde of "little |
8 |
BDFLs", they are their own little ruling clique that answers to no one, and |
9 |
you effectively don't have a functioning internal structure -- just a |
10 |
divide -- and the resulting angst. It sucks. And I understand how wltjr |
11 |
mentioning Seemant brings visions of the "old days" (really, Seemant and I |
12 |
were the 'original dudes' and not the 'oldtimers' you speak of) and that |
13 |
can get people feeling sketchy about going back to the 'dark ages' or |
14 |
trying to impose me as BDFL on the project (I know that wltjr has fantasies |
15 |
of this, and it's something I don't want. But me being more involved with |
16 |
Gentoo... that's something that is positive and we can discuss.) |
17 |
|
18 |
As for my involvement, here is what I think makes sense. As Roy points out, |
19 |
Gentoo is where it is, with the rules it has. These rules must be accepted |
20 |
and respected. We must build on what currently exists, to respect those who |
21 |
have invested in and lived within the metastructure. I have sensed a great |
22 |
deal of goodwill from numerous people on the Gentoo side related to |
23 |
positive and friendly collaboration. I want to build on that. |
24 |
|
25 |
I am making myself available to assist in some way. What I think makes |
26 |
sense is the following (view this as a proposal, expressed in list form...) |
27 |
|
28 |
1. The council invites me to participate in all council discussions and |
29 |
meetings, and effectively treats me as a non-voting member. I'd propose a |
30 |
council vote to give me a permanent status of a non-voting member, maybe |
31 |
with some exception that I can be kicked out for a year at a time if a |
32 |
majority of the council can demonstrate and vote that I am regularly being |
33 |
disruptive or some such thing. This provides an open invitation from the |
34 |
council for my positive contribution to the project. We can then |
35 |
legitimately say that 'Daniel is back and helping out Gentoo!' -- |
36 |
satisfying those who want that (both the BDFL fantasizers and those who are |
37 |
legitimately just happy that I'm back helping) and gives me the regular |
38 |
exposure to various issues so I can get familiar with where I can help out |
39 |
the project most effectively. I am not a magical solution to problems -- I |
40 |
am making myself available to try to understand and help, and get involved |
41 |
as it makes sense, and this requires regular exposure to the current |
42 |
challenges and opportunities. This would make that possible. |
43 |
|
44 |
2. I look at running for a seat on the council in the coming elections. |
45 |
If I run and am elected, I would then of course be a voting member of the |
46 |
council. The experience gained from item #1 would provide me with enough of |
47 |
a clue so if I were elected (I figure I have a good shot), I would be |
48 |
familiar with the existing processes of the council and the current |
49 |
challenges and thus would be able to be a positive voting contributor to |
50 |
the council rather than a distraction. Thus, if this were to happen, there |
51 |
will be much less uncertainty and drama and much more continuity. |
52 |
|
53 |
3. I will continue to work with members of the Gentoo dev team on various |
54 |
development-related projects. If, for running for council, I am required to |
55 |
be a Gentoo developer, I can go through the recruitment process. However, I |
56 |
am frankly happy working with Gentoo developers as I am doing now and I |
57 |
feel like it is less likely to cause problems if I do NOT have direct |
58 |
commit access to Gentoo repos. So maybe the council could vote an exception |
59 |
to my need to have access to the Gentoo repos. I think this would make it |
60 |
easier for everyone -- people would not need to worry that I would subvert |
61 |
existing processes. And I see no reason why I need direct commit access. |
62 |
(Side-note: Maybe this is a model for the future -- have the most senior |
63 |
old-timers 'graduate' to non-direct-commit roles so they cannot subvert the |
64 |
process and thus are forced to work with existing teams. In effect, a kind |
65 |
of 'term limit' -- force them spread their wings and use GitHub like |
66 |
everyone else as they already have enough clout to get people to look at |
67 |
their code.) |
68 |
|
69 |
I think the process above would make my re-involvement with the project as |
70 |
uneventful as possible, and most likely to be perceived as positive by all |
71 |
stake-holders. (Council, devs, users, BDFL worshippers, etc.) Approached |
72 |
this way, there isn't any real ambiguity or drama about what my role is and |
73 |
how that relates to the roles of others, and I am letting people know ahead |
74 |
of time about my intention to run for council. Then hopefully we can focus |
75 |
on bigger issues like actually making Gentoo better and more fun :) |
76 |
|
77 |
Let me know what you think. |
78 |
|
79 |
Best Regards, |
80 |
|
81 |
Daniel |
82 |
|
83 |
On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 2:09 AM, Andreas K. Huettel <dilfridge@g.o> |
84 |
wrote: |
85 |
|
86 |
> Hi Daniel, |
87 |
> |
88 |
> > First, Seemant is a fantastic guy and Gentoo would benefit greatly from |
89 |
> his |
90 |
> > return. He was an incredible asset on the project. |
91 |
> |
92 |
> Sure, sounds like a good idea, if he wants to. |
93 |
> |
94 |
> > I am happy to get more involved with Gentoo. I've actually been working |
95 |
> > with several Gentoo devs on several development-related things and plan |
96 |
> to |
97 |
> > continue to do so informally. |
98 |
> |
99 |
> Sounds also like a good idea. Feel free to get in touch with the |
100 |
> recruiters. |
101 |
> |
102 |
> > I do think Gentoo could benefit from some positive energy and some |
103 |
> > additional support for development. I would like to assist with this |
104 |
> > effort. |
105 |
> |
106 |
> A significant part of the "negative energy" comes from a generation |
107 |
> conflict. |
108 |
> |
109 |
> Strongly simplifying, we had "oldtimers" who were used to organically grown |
110 |
> rules (see games team, which by force of tradition ignored QA and council), |
111 |
> and we had the "new" developers like me, who were recruited over the years |
112 |
> according to developed procedures and were told to stick to rules. That |
113 |
> led to |
114 |
> effectively two classes of developers, with more and more increasing |
115 |
> clashes. |
116 |
> Devrel, mostly consisting of people who were around a long time, was not |
117 |
> helpful. What happened eventually that the oldtimers were so much in the |
118 |
> minority that they got overruled more and more. See games team, which was |
119 |
> dissolved by the council, and see toolchain, which was basically completely |
120 |
> abandoned for a year before re-forming with new people. |
121 |
> |
122 |
> We are finally reaching the point where "new" people have a significant |
123 |
> say in |
124 |
> Gentoo, and where rules apply the same to every dev and there are not a |
125 |
> selected few exempt. Which has already improved the overall mood a lot. |
126 |
> |
127 |
> How do you want to contribute to this improvement? |
128 |
> |
129 |
> > I think we do need to reach out to Google, who seems to have a habit of |
130 |
> > poaching our developers, and work out some kind of arrangement of |
131 |
> > cooperation. The sum total of stuff I've received from Google has been a |
132 |
> > prototype Chromebook, a $50 prepaid VISA card, and a google blanket. No, |
133 |
> I |
134 |
> > am not making this up. I know these items were sent to me with the |
135 |
> > intention of saying thanks, and meant as the kindest of gestures -- but |
136 |
> > certainly, there are better ways for us to support one another? |
137 |
> |
138 |
> I'm seeing this critical. OK I'm probably one of the few persons here who |
139 |
> is |
140 |
> not hoping to get recruited by Google at some point. However... |
141 |
> |
142 |
> One of the side effects of Google poaching our developers was that we |
143 |
> ended up |
144 |
> with some mystery changes in core Gentoo stuff that noone ever explained, |
145 |
> and |
146 |
> that possibly were added to support ChromeOS. Now, there's nothing wrong |
147 |
> with |
148 |
> being cooperative. What is wrong is smuggling stuff in under the radar. |
149 |
> Disclaimer, I can't prove any of this, but a few times I had a rather odd |
150 |
> feeling. |
151 |
> |
152 |
> And please don't listen too much to wltjr. Most of us stop reading a |
153 |
> mailing |
154 |
> list thread as soon as he is involved. |
155 |
> |
156 |
> Cheers, |
157 |
> Andreas |
158 |
> |
159 |
> |
160 |
> -- |
161 |
> Andreas K. Hüttel |
162 |
> dilfridge@g.o |
163 |
> Gentoo Linux developer |
164 |
> (council, toolchain, perl, libreoffice, comrel) |
165 |
> |
166 |
> |