1 |
On 03/07/19 07:12, Robin H. Johnson wrote: |
2 |
> On Mon, Jul 01, 2019 at 09:34:06PM +0200, Andreas K. Huettel wrote: |
3 |
>>>> Yes, I understand that. However, I still believe that a contract |
4 |
>>>> initiated between CPA and a single small-ish entity such a Gentoo |
5 |
>>>> involves more costs than fees taken by umbrella dedicated to multiple |
6 |
>>>> entities. Please correct me if I'm wrong. |
7 |
>>> Nobody knows yet. Different umbrellas work differently. |
8 |
> The CPA we have engaged so far, Corporate Capital, has a standard |
9 |
> preparation fee of USD1500 per fiscal year. We do have some estimates of |
10 |
> Umbrella fees, plus the Financial Statements I prepared... |
11 |
> |
12 |
>> Sigh. I agree with the second statement. The first one, well... |
13 |
>> |
14 |
>> Here's the example of SPI (disclaimer, we do not know if they would take us): |
15 |
>> * no direct costs associated |
16 |
>> * 5% deduction from donations for SPI's overhead |
17 |
>> |
18 |
>> Big Hint, it helps to first research something and then talk / discuss. That's |
19 |
>> however, rather rare on this list. |
20 |
> The Trustees HAVE previously done _some_ of this legwork on the major |
21 |
> umbrellas, I don't have a link to hand, but I do remember details, |
22 |
> because it was in scope of my work as Treasurer; and we can combine |
23 |
> these with the financial statements to compare against the CPA quotes to |
24 |
> date. Further would should take the longer list of Umbrellas and |
25 |
> comprehensively document their costs. |
26 |
> |
27 |
> As further concrete example: |
28 |
> https://sfconservancy.org/projects/apply/ |
29 |
>>> How much does it cost us financially to join Conservancy? |
30 |
>>> New Conservancy members are required to pay 10% of their revenue |
31 |
> The umbrella fees I've seen range: |
32 |
> - smallest: 5% of net revenue (income less expenses) |
33 |
> - largest: 20% of gross income |
34 |
> |
35 |
> The exact definition of which expenses might be included/excluded by a |
36 |
> given umbrella might also vary, I didn't find a clear public |
37 |
> documentation on it. |
38 |
> |
39 |
> Basing that on the FY2018 fiscal, with the additional caveat that I |
40 |
> don't have any value assigned to in-kind server/hosting services |
41 |
> received by Infra; That would increase gross & net values. |
42 |
> |
43 |
> Gross Income: USD 28,600.15 |
44 |
> Gross Expenses: USD 9,292.95 |
45 |
> - Depreciation: USD 3,659.64 (it devalued assets but wasn't something we actually spent) |
46 |
> - "Real" Expense: USD 5,633.31 |
47 |
> = Net revenue: USD 22,966.84 |
48 |
> |
49 |
> 5% of net: USD 1,148.34 |
50 |
> 20% of gross: USD 5,720.03 |
51 |
> |
52 |
> At an outward glance, this does imply that some umbrellas would be |
53 |
> cheaper than a CPA, while others would be more expensive; but the |
54 |
> equation is more complicated, because we need to be careful about the |
55 |
> accounting of services that the umbrella would provide. |
56 |
> |
57 |
> The equation therefore should be more of: |
58 |
> Cost(Umbrella) vs [Umbrella baseline without umbrella-provided expenses] |
59 |
> |
60 |
> Regardless of the scale of the numbers, the change would REDUCE the |
61 |
> expenses, and increase the net revenue number (and thus also the |
62 |
> Umbrella's actual fee). |
63 |
> |
64 |
Thank you very much for providing some indicative figures, and for the work |
65 |
you have tirelessly done on the Gentoo finances, Robin. |
66 |
|
67 |
I hope the council considers them wisely. |