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El jue, 09-01-2014 a las 00:40 +0100, Tom Wijsman escribió: |
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> On Sat, 4 Jan 2014 20:46:05 +0100 |
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> Ulrich Mueller <ulm@g.o> wrote: |
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> |
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> > In less than two weeks from now, the council will meet again. This is |
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> > the time to raise and prepare items that the council should put on the |
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> > agenda to discuss or vote on. |
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[...] |
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|
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Not sure how to group all but will try :/ |
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|
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1. People don't wanting to update to Gnome3 due Systemd -> I wouldn't |
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start again the thread about systemd and why this people hates so much |
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systemd, but if they really really dislike so much systemd they can |
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still run Gnome without it, they will get some problems (in concrete, I |
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remember power-management due gnome-settings-daemon (they would need to |
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run something in background to take care of hibernating/suspending, a |
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bit like we needed to do with Gnome 2.32 when nobody was logged in a |
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gnome session), and multiseat support (switching users could break, but |
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it was broken already in Gnome 2.32 for a long time, I remember being |
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unable to open more gdm instanced for new users with 2.32 just a few |
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months ago on this laptop and just a few weeks in all the machines I |
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updated recently to 3.8). There will be more problems and some upstreams |
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will refuse to even investigate the issue if you are not running |
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systemd... but upstream won't either support you with 2.32. Then, if |
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they are going to run an unsupported by upstream setup, I would prefer |
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to run the "latest" one than 2.32. |
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|
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2. GDM 2.20 -> Some people looks to still want to use it... I personally |
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would prefer them to run lightdm or MDM if they don't want to run new |
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GDM. Lightdm worked fine last time I used it, MDM is still not packaged |
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on Gentoo but, at least, is a fork of GDM 2.20 with some fixes and |
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better maintained... but keep running GDM 2.20 looks to me like the |
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worst option. |
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|
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3. 3D support -> This is the major blocker for running Gnome3 currently, |
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I even suffered it in one of the machines whose nouveau driver wasn't |
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really working and needed to force software rendering for it. Finally I |
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was able to buy an old (but still supported by nvidia-drivers for some |
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ages) 6800GT by 18 eur ;) |
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|
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But there is no solution for this apart of: |
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- Use software rendering |
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- Use gnome-panel-3.8 (the "flashback" session), but this is really |
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ugly, would be nice if could be improved with upstream, I think it's |
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used a bit more often by Arch people, I patched it to at least run |
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nautilus to draw background but still smells :S |
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|
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Anyway, this isn't a distribution problem, this affects all |
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distributions, if there were a better gnome-panel package that we could |
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package, we would do it for sure |
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|
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Regarding CPU/memory requirements... this is the first time I see this |
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problem, the older machine I maintain (a PentiumIV) has no problem |
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moving Gnome 3.8 over how it was performing with 2.32 (once I "fixed" |
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the 3D issues I have commented). Things like evolution-3.8 are much much |
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better (in performance and bug fixes) that 2.32... |
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|
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4. Regarding stability of Gnome 2.32... Have that people looked at |
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changelog (NEWS file) for only part of the things from 2.32 to 3.8? Does |
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people know that a bug eating (yes, losing them) mails when fetching |
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with POP3 with an unstable network was fixed in evolution-3.8.5? Does |
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people know that nobody was going to fix people needing to set proxy in |
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various places due partial dconf/gconf migration? (this are only a few |
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examples) |
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|
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5. Regarding TomWij mail, yes, I know that your intention is only to |
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bring attention to this to try to find a solution, I really appreciate |
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your help contributing to not get lots of FUDs to spread without end in |
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forums :) |
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|
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6. Regarding Cinnamon -> we need help maintaining it because it's |
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getting more complicated to maintain because its upstream is deviating |
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more from Gnome upstream. Anyway, the current version in the tree was |
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still working ok (with gnome-3.8, for 3.10 we will need to involve more |
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work) |
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|
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7. Regarding MATE -> I simply don't care, I won't bring it to the tree |
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because I don't have time for maintaining it and not interest (since I |
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am a happy Gnome3 user... yes, running systemd and not the Classical |
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mode, the "ugly" one). But, of course, I would be really happy if some |
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of this people would maintain it and offer it (I think a dev was |
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interested on it in the past, but no idea what did occur finally, maybe |
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he could get help from people maintaining MATE on overlays and similar |
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as it won't surely be an easy task) |
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|
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8. Maybe we could get some help to improve gnome-panel-3.8, or find a |
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way to run the old gnome-panel-2.32 with the rest of 3.8. I am thinking |
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here in people not being able to have 3D support. For people disliking |
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the new gnome3 look I would point them to Classic mode (that is |
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completely official), extensions, cinnamon... |
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|
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I have no idea but, would the mate-panel require many more "mate" |
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things? |
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|
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9. Regarding Gnome 2.32 maintainer ship -> I *personally* won't take |
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care of it, but that doesn't block others from doing it. The problem is |
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that it's not easy to really maintain that as it's not maintained at all |
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by upstream, and we are one of the last distributions still providing it |
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(then, it's really difficult to really fix the bugs people will find for |
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sure). Also, I am opposed to people running things like epiphany-2.32, |
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evolution-2.32, evince-2.32... they really have a lot of bugs that has |
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been fixed during this years in newer versions. |
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|
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10. The news item -> What concrete info do you miss? We could add it to |
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the guide pointed in existing news item: |
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https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/GNOME/3.8-upgrade-guide |
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|
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I wrote there some information about Classic mode, extensions... :/ |
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11. I really agree with Tetromino's reply, he explains pretty well what |
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are the problems to "maintain" Gnome 2.32 more and more time (I am |
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talking about really maintaining it, not keeping it in the tree with |
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bugs accumulating and the "maintainers" ignoring them because they are |
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really hard to fix) |
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|
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12. Also Gilles' mail explains pretty well what blocks, for example, |
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MATE, it's more related with man power than anything else. |
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Hope this clarify a bit more the things |
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Regards |