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On 02/05/2015 06:20 PM, Michał Górny wrote: |
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> Dnia 2015-02-05, o godz. 18:08:01 Markos Chandras |
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> <hwoarang@g.o> napisał(a): |
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> |
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>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 |
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>> |
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>> On 02/05/2015 05:54 PM, Michał Górny wrote: |
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>>> Dnia 2015-02-05, o godz. 17:50:21 Markos Chandras |
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>>> <hwoarang@g.o> napisał(a): |
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>>> |
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>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 |
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>>>> |
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>>>> On 02/05/2015 06:56 AM, Michał Górny wrote: |
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>>>>> Hello, everyone. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> It's finally time to discuss some of the recruitment |
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>>>>> issues. It's not a new complaint that the process is |
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>>>>> time-consuming and discouraging to our contributors. We |
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>>>>> have a pretty low number of new recruits [well, we could |
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>>>>> definitely have a higher number!] and too often they resign |
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>>>>> in the process. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> As I see it, the main issue are ebuild quizzes. They are |
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>>>>> very time- consuming and discouraging. It's like filling a |
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>>>>> quiz with relatively simple questions where answers need to |
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>>>>> fit a key, and you have to tell the recruit to fill in the |
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>>>>> missing bits a few times just to help him get further. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> I myself attempted ebuild quiz twice, because the first |
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>>>>> time I simply ended up not having the time for it. My late |
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>>>>> recruit was making slow progress, and recently vanished -- |
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>>>>> hopefully only because he doesn't have will for that |
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>>>>> anymore. As I see it, the disadvantages outweigh the |
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>>>>> benefits here. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> I have discussed this with kensington and a few Council |
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>>>>> members (unofficially), and we came up with following |
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>>>>> ideas: |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> 1. remove or reduce the ebuild quiz to a reasonable number |
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>>>>> of questions. In other words, make it bearable. Focus on |
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>>>>> the stuff that can't be checked otherwise. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> 2. Add an extra contribution period in which the candidate |
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>>>>> commits to the tree through Pull Requests. Developers watch |
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>>>>> the requests, review them and decide when the recruit is |
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>>>>> ready. We may extend this with requirements like '3 |
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>>>>> different developers must review late activities and |
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>>>>> evaluate them'. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> 3. Possibly extend the recruit-recruiter interaction. |
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>>>>> Rather than treating the interrogation as some kind of |
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>>>>> final confirmation, make it a small extra part of the |
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>>>>> learning process. In other words, reduce the other parts, |
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>>>>> fill in the blanks here. |
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>>>>> |
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>>>>> What do you think? |
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>>>>> |
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>>>> |
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>>>> So you want to discuss the procedures of how a team within |
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>>>> Gentoo operates without talking to that team first. And lets |
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>>>> say you get an agreement on the list on how recruiters should |
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>>>> do their job, and what means they should use, and then you |
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>>>> expect that team to simply follow that? Well how about *no*. |
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>>>> It's nice to take decisions on behalf of a team that you are |
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>>>> not part of and then simply expect them to follow what you |
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>>>> have agreed on. Sorry it's not going to happen simply because |
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>>>> you wanted to. And you really can't have the council to make |
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>>>> such decision when that team is very much alive and active. |
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>>>> If you don't like how we do things, then talk to us. |
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>>> |
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>>> I'm talking to you. Publicly, via this list. Is this a |
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>>> problem? |
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>>> |
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>> |
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>> Taking this to a public debate, means that you expect recruiters |
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>> to follow what the majority "decides". This is not how the teams |
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>> operate in Gentoo. I explained to you why the process is not as |
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>> "stupid" as you may think. Certainly there ways to improve it, |
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>> but like I said, before you judge the process, you should discuss |
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>> "mentoring" first. This is where the problem is. |
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> |
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> No, it is just about transparency. |
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> |
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|
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You can have all the transparent discussions you want i never said the |
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opposite. Just don't expect a team to change its operation just |
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because the majority says so. I told you where the problem is. Now, |
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either listen to my advice, who I happen to have recruited lots and |
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lots of different people over the last 4 years, and start discussing |
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"Mentor practices and guidelines" or simply ignore me and go on with |
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this discussion. Either way makes no difference to me. |
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|
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- -- |
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Regards, |
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Markos Chandras |
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