Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Markos Chandras <hwoarang@g.o>
To: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council discuss: overlapping council terms of two years
Date: Fri, 05 Aug 2011 16:48:27
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Council discuss: overlapping council terms of two years by Patrick Lauer
Hash: SHA512

On 08/05/2011 05:32 PM, Patrick Lauer wrote:
> On 08/05/11 15:54, Markos Chandras wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 >> >> On 08/05/2011 02:44 PM, Fabian Groffen wrote: >>> On 05-08-2011 14:17:29 +0100, Markos Chandras wrote: >>>> I am still not convinced that a committee of 7 people is >>>> flexible enough to push radical changes. >>> >>> Perhaps I misunderstand you here, but I don't think making >>> radical changes is good, that's what 7 people balance out. >>> Radical changes have been made to important parts of Gentoo like >>> e.g. Python, and this didn't really result in a major >>> improvement, IMO. >> >> My point is how fast and how flexible can a committee like this >> decide on global project issues > > If you have a good idea and carry it forward you can expect it to be > ratified within the next council meeting - so with deadlines for > discussion items etc. about 6 weeks turnaround time in the worst > case. >
This is very optimistic.
> But... for that YOU have to move things forward. Demanding that > council makes other people do things is not how Gentoo works. So if > you think slacking arches are a problem ... aquire a Mips or Sparc or > whatever machine and get cracking.
Right, exactly what I am saying. A single developer has to put his effort to push things forward. Last time I remember something similar was when Ben (yngwin) tried to introduce changes and he was "forced" to retirement. Awesome. You know very well that if a single person tries on his own to change things, he will lose motivation sooner or later. You know, another solution for slacking arches is to drop the stable keywords. OFC this is too scary and it wont make us look good :). This problem in particular exists before I even become a developer. Everyone complains, yet nothing changes :). And the solution is pretty obvious: "If you can't maintain a stable tree, then don't have one"
> >> Right nobody came with a proper solution yet the problems still >> exists. The same problem will probably pop up again in the future, >> recycling the previous discussion and go back to sleep again. >> Someone has to decide and vote for the least worst solution before >> the problem goes back to hibernation, otherwise you are back to >> square 0. This is no progress > > Actionism won't help. If you don't even have a solution either the > problem is well defined, very hard to solve or not the right problem > to fix (see the whole "let's find a problem so that systemd is a > solution" insanity that just won't walk away and leave us alone) >
Maybe but pretending there is no problem is not good either. Keep talking and try to come up with a solution. After all, most of us ( if not everyone ) are engineers, programmers etc, sysadmins. We can't really say "Eh, sorry, too hard for me, I'll skip it"
> And again, if you don't want it to go to sleep work on it, find > others that want to work on it, radiate on relevant communication > channels (blog, mailing lists, ...) that you work on it. Don't expect > others to do things for you.
That is true.
> > I'm quite happy with the current state, there's lots of users > helping with issues if you ask,
That could be better. We definitely need more communication channels with users and bugzilla is a bottleneck. But this discussion does not belong here.
> there's usually a few devs that give at least moral support, and > things move as fast as I can keep them moving. What's the problem > with that? :)
There is no problem, I am just saying things could definitely be better. Again this does not belong here What I gathered from your e-mail is that Council is there to just vote for issues that other devs brought to the agenda. This is a bit pathetic isn't it? - -- Regards, Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.17 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJOPB6uAAoJEPqDWhW0r/LCZW8P/joIT22vX8fXfOCph8xbjhl0 xM93t3DYhAqcO6Mu2Zf2Ut9CRnA2yLr1qCuggtY15OFR43AJbCmAycokNm6WTuOX DIamdcWD//lXphNhpyJWQoDG+m0s+KlYAOCkZspUHedFgcsuPv0IyE8Osgfl8A/X 4HmqqAWQqzt61RcywthaT19yr94I2ta4N04xKdVixPHvMXJcA9RhVvpFQsFZ9b2F 4v+ElqUnBAqSkidtVSY7zfBCmKu2f3E5HZ5FqK2shYBPBQ1pUoebugTYFPwn77IO sv3wZoCh4L6MMKDbdOKS3pQSDLpFJbTZHM3wFdlnz2QSasRq9rXGRiylSmHCpPqe o9+WQwhNA5yLC34Srb/St+7o+r/JJeucQjbOnldIxvSGjQfLXb5iEFJ/IJ+LIZd2 oh8yh9tx/JAzMgUsisUJpDw1DyHtNELy+LJarx3KPCab8ok3fryMBY9Y8XxYkmYy 8hbp8zOc8bU0nO4VZOcHYy5y+3O/hJMfSH1FShYXHRZLcHTxrppDSfvGIjkRGz1a nwT0bR+xgJ8HdPR3qZnMUEqRasydS7ekx0jgXqtR9OrA3Py7oK5BbjolhXQyDyk8 j93FGMaPDwaV6g0NKypaYnKrCtdH+0Pdj9ztx4tRG4Ms1gGOTo+fQSRbIk+dT9ll 3/N/rMQEPprQ2uMo3Yv5 =bhRf -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----