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On 08/14/2011 02:07 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: |
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> Markos Chandras schrieb: |
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>> On 08/14/2011 01:15 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: |
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>>> Markos Chandras schrieb: |
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>>>> Hi all, |
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>>>> |
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>>>> This is the first of the items I would like to discuss for the |
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>>>> next Council agenda (or a later one). |
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>>>> |
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>>>> Some time ago, few people proposed to have Council appointed |
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>>>> leaders for QA and DevRel. |
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>> |
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>>> My first question: Why is your proposal restricted to QA and |
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>>> DevRel? |
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>> |
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>> Cause I believe these teams are crucial to the continuity of |
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>> Gentoo project. |
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> |
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> How do you weight one project against another one? I see it the other |
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> way round: QA and DevRel are only important, if there is some issue |
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> not resolved otherwise. But many other projects are always important, |
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> since they have to maintain things continuously. While the council |
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> could still decide, if DevRel or QA are gone (they just take some |
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> workload away), you wont be able to get the council to e.g. maintain |
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> our infrastructure, ebuilds or docs. |
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> |
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1) If another project slacks, then bad luck for you. Just mask and |
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remove the ebuilds ( see recent zope thread ). There is nothing we can |
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do about that. |
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2) Infrastructure is a sensitive team, and does not deal with ebuild |
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maintenance and portage directly. |
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3) I am not sure what is the problem with docs. There are understaffed |
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since I remember but it is not crucial to project continuity since most |
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projects maintain docs on their spaces as well. |
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|
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>> |
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>> |
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>>>> I like the idea because this way the Council can ensure that |
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>>>> the team is active or either force some activity in case the |
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>>>> current leader slacks big time. |
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>> |
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>>> If there is noone active in a team, noone prevents other devs to |
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>>> join the team and vote themselves for the lead. So even if there |
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>>> is no activity, it should be no problem to get activity, if |
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>>> someone is interested to do the work. |
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>> Right now, you can't join any of these teams unless a lead approves |
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>> you. Have a look at gentoo-qa ML. |
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> |
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> Please re-read my lines. I talked about _noone being active_. The QA |
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> team is not empty/inactive, neither is DevRel team empty/inactive, so |
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> this does not apply to the current situation. |
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Well, clearly we have a different definition for the word "active". If |
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you think that QA is active then there is no reason for me to try to |
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convince you for the opposite. |
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|
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> |
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>>> If the team is inactive and noone interested, the Council wont be |
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>>> able to create any activity either, since they cannot force |
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>>> anyone to do something. |
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>> You can't just join a dead team and become a lead :). There are |
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>> some bureaucracy procedures to follow. |
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> |
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> You cant? who prevents you from doing so? And if there are just some |
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> procedures to follow, this just means some initial activity/workload |
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> to do so, but again: If the team is dead, who could prevent you from |
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> joining it and then becoming the lead? |
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Existing members, who claim to be active, may prevent you. Remember what |
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happened last time Patrick tried to resurrect GMW, and all of a sudden, |
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Joshua claimed that he can't do that because he wasn't the lead. |
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Unless I misunderstand your definition for "dead" word. You mean empty |
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project pages? Or just pages with 14 members and 0 commits/year? |
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|
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> |
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>>>> Furthermore, right now there is the potential problem for the |
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>>>> leader to only allow new members that he likes so they can vote |
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>>>> for him on next elections. Membership and voting actions should |
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>>>> not be related in these teams. |
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>> |
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>>> How is this specific to those 2 projects? Other projects do work |
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>>> the same way, so if you argument this way, you should extend |
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>>> your proposal to all projects, not just QA and DevRel. |
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>> |
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>> Like I said, these are the crucial projects. This is because they |
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>> manage procedures affecting inter-project related issues etc. |
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> |
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> I have to disagree about the importance of those 2 projects. The most |
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> important work done by those teams is fixing minor issues, being |
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> either technical issues or inter-personal issues. While those teams |
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> can make a decision, this is never final, you always have the option |
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> to go to the council, which is elected by the dev community and has |
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> the final decision. So i would see those projects more like some |
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> delegation of work to people interested in doing the work in that |
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> area, while the council still has the last word. |
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If you have a dead QA team, then you suck as a project. If you have a |
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dead recruitment team then you such as a project. But if you have a e.g. |
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deal perl team, then you just can't support perl, which is bad, but not |
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as bad as not having QA/Devrel up and running. |
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> |
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> And, as a side note: Only a very small minority of devs is even |
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> willing and able to do the work of those projects, so a regular |
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> council voting would effectively change nothing beside adding some |
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> more bureaucracy. |
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> |
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Bringing council to the game, ensures that these projects will be active |
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and managed at a senior level. Right now, there is no recovery plan if |
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these teams do not function properly. |
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|
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- -- |
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Regards, |
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Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 |
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