Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: Markos Chandras <hwoarang@g.o>
To: Thomas Sachau <tommy@g.o>
Cc: gentoo-project@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel
Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:39:48
In Reply to: Re: [gentoo-project] Council appointed leaders for QA and DevRel by Thomas Sachau
Hash: SHA512

On 08/14/2011 02:07 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote:
> Markos Chandras schrieb: >> On 08/14/2011 01:15 PM, Thomas Sachau wrote: >>> Markos Chandras schrieb: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> This is the first of the items I would like to discuss for the >>>> next Council agenda (or a later one). >>>> >>>> Some time ago, few people proposed to have Council appointed >>>> leaders for QA and DevRel. >> >>> My first question: Why is your proposal restricted to QA and >>> DevRel? >> >> Cause I believe these teams are crucial to the continuity of >> Gentoo project. > > How do you weight one project against another one? I see it the other > way round: QA and DevRel are only important, if there is some issue > not resolved otherwise. But many other projects are always important, > since they have to maintain things continuously. While the council > could still decide, if DevRel or QA are gone (they just take some > workload away), you wont be able to get the council to e.g. maintain > our infrastructure, ebuilds or docs. >
1) If another project slacks, then bad luck for you. Just mask and remove the ebuilds ( see recent zope thread ). There is nothing we can do about that. 2) Infrastructure is a sensitive team, and does not deal with ebuild maintenance and portage directly. 3) I am not sure what is the problem with docs. There are understaffed since I remember but it is not crucial to project continuity since most projects maintain docs on their spaces as well.
>> >> >>>> I like the idea because this way the Council can ensure that >>>> the team is active or either force some activity in case the >>>> current leader slacks big time. >> >>> If there is noone active in a team, noone prevents other devs to >>> join the team and vote themselves for the lead. So even if there >>> is no activity, it should be no problem to get activity, if >>> someone is interested to do the work. >> Right now, you can't join any of these teams unless a lead approves >> you. Have a look at gentoo-qa ML. > > Please re-read my lines. I talked about _noone being active_. The QA > team is not empty/inactive, neither is DevRel team empty/inactive, so > this does not apply to the current situation.
Well, clearly we have a different definition for the word "active". If you think that QA is active then there is no reason for me to try to convince you for the opposite.
> >>> If the team is inactive and noone interested, the Council wont be >>> able to create any activity either, since they cannot force >>> anyone to do something. >> You can't just join a dead team and become a lead :). There are >> some bureaucracy procedures to follow. > > You cant? who prevents you from doing so? And if there are just some > procedures to follow, this just means some initial activity/workload > to do so, but again: If the team is dead, who could prevent you from > joining it and then becoming the lead?
Existing members, who claim to be active, may prevent you. Remember what happened last time Patrick tried to resurrect GMW, and all of a sudden, Joshua claimed that he can't do that because he wasn't the lead. Unless I misunderstand your definition for "dead" word. You mean empty project pages? Or just pages with 14 members and 0 commits/year?
> >>>> Furthermore, right now there is the potential problem for the >>>> leader to only allow new members that he likes so they can vote >>>> for him on next elections. Membership and voting actions should >>>> not be related in these teams. >> >>> How is this specific to those 2 projects? Other projects do work >>> the same way, so if you argument this way, you should extend >>> your proposal to all projects, not just QA and DevRel. >> >> Like I said, these are the crucial projects. This is because they >> manage procedures affecting inter-project related issues etc. > > I have to disagree about the importance of those 2 projects. The most > important work done by those teams is fixing minor issues, being > either technical issues or inter-personal issues. While those teams > can make a decision, this is never final, you always have the option > to go to the council, which is elected by the dev community and has > the final decision. So i would see those projects more like some > delegation of work to people interested in doing the work in that > area, while the council still has the last word.
If you have a dead QA team, then you suck as a project. If you have a dead recruitment team then you such as a project. But if you have a e.g. deal perl team, then you just can't support perl, which is bad, but not as bad as not having QA/Devrel up and running.
> > And, as a side note: Only a very small minority of devs is even > willing and able to do the work of those projects, so a regular > council voting would effectively change nothing beside adding some > more bureaucracy. >
Bringing council to the game, ensures that these projects will be active and managed at a senior level. Right now, there is no recovery plan if these teams do not function properly. - -- Regards, Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.18 (GNU/Linux) iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJOR8/nAAoJEPqDWhW0r/LCLroP/0C73ckKNUZtuZKuoxzOp2o9 yY6IkTyfAbUkI4TI7Y5LV2AAkWEw9SxPFBZPZBQfbdCGTD4L5CuFzMz0CHKynMMm yKZxTjgoKCXOVCgDJX3QVH3K220ydtpWyYShjnd5zm1S+u52cKADXW1B5x643WTX 2Eb9BZEd23tjkccXqZW1bHRVP+FbtTB5rrmozF3cRxQUOyCKtyRVlmWBfvvOKelc 2hFfKGyj2kvkSjrmM4zTUS+nw3EEXBzq3DRMWqa6adyC1o9urnkHNuls0CQhuS2Q 7NiyfK4vRM3mmXZ/Ay5gFjPldZKVaufnIDXmVmOxT2opK6dcw3dFRZZArRlalqcH F8iHQbEAc1aRqhdHjarqjEHAQ9uO5WhK5Jch4afSEEBP7LQDp5aU1dt4mDFc5h1n ls+oF7Vru6/Do1+p5+6XkDwFniMMmA/gZ7f8rgk+uNGSK+6nAuNNjEaEmbvyj0Ok XGdlr/Z++8vhjcEj6QbPWe4I51i7hVUhfLV8nlIGb1z1ZCDweka7wGQQVxHu7zKk Sfj+UffCOKBbJdj+zvMvD/X9AKJ2VL0zJD4TpEY7tgYLZV7xxF7bWEj3ZWTLpzyg MQodaZ+U+UWgW7s6WOP0YeRz1IHyCUjlIg1P+E7qGlHNP3Ly7e3I87KzNRMIs0nK MYnN9li08SvXi00PD+Gh =EUFy -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----