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Starting a new thread, so others can filter. |
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> On Thursday, January 5, 2017 2:15:34 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote: |
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> Two things: |
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> |
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> First, serious conflicts are actually pretty rare. Sure, they're in |
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> the spotlight right now because we've had one of those |
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> once-in-a-few-years big incidents. |
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|
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Somewhat, with regard to myself, I am tired of watching it happen over the |
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years and doing nothing. I thought it was just me, but years of observation |
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has shown its a much larger problem, going back to people like Ciaran and |
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before. That I chose a year that other stuff was going on, was just by |
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coincidence. |
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|
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I had long mentioned taking things on list on by bug for years. I just held |
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back and finally the dam broke. |
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> Second, conflicts don't actually result in quagmires. Life moves on. |
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> We don't have difficulty deciding what to do with problematic people. |
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> A decision gets made, and sometimes it is appealed, and then a final |
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> decision gets made. |
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|
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Hardly, Gentoo Java has been stagnant in may ways for years. That is |
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essentially a quagmire. New Java devs are few and far between. But it is not |
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just Java lacking. I love how people say Gentoo is lacking man power, then |
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turn around sand say its not in a quagmire. If you lack man power, clearly |
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things are not getting done. So some things are not moving on. |
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|
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Ebuilds with no EAPI, cruft that needs to be updated, removed etc. Lots of |
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stuff in tree far beyond Java. |
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> I'm not sure why you think Gentoo uses consensus-based |
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> decision-making. |
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Because it is lead by pleasing the developers. Any action that developers do |
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not agree with is not taken. That is consensus. |
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From what I have observed the council is routinely polling for topics, and |
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hardly presenting new ones. I do not see leadership. If decisions are not |
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voted on or made by all developers, seems they are not taking place. |
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|
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Nothing has changed on Foundation side, I do not see much happening anywhere. |
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|
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> Most big things happen simply by announcing them on |
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> the lists and then change happens. Sometimes it is controversial, so |
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> then it waits for the next Council meeting, assuming the Council even |
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> needs to deal with it as opposed to a project team. Then the decision |
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> is made, and life moves on. |
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|
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Where is the leadership coming from the council? The council coming up with |
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some direction for Gentoo? |
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Is there any direction? |
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The council was supposed to lead the project technically. I do not see such |
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happening. Here is an example, just happens to relate to Java. |
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http://www.funtoo.org/Java_Configuration_Design_Update |
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|
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Where are the council produced GLEPs? |
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|
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> Now, what we don't do is have the Council just come out with policies |
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> out of nowhere that nobody else agrees with. That isn't being |
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> decisive, that is just being stupid when you're a volunteer-based |
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> organization. Sure, many of our decisions are compromises, but they |
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> tend to be compromises that make sense. |
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No that is leadership. Leaders come up with ideas to benefit those they lead. |
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They should not solely rely on what others feel should be done, etc. There are |
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many times leaders must take things in directions people disagree with at |
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first, but sometimes tend to be the right thing in the long run. |
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For example, things like SLFC was discussed regarding Gentoo long ago. If |
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Gentoo ever did that, there would be a percentage that disagree. Those same |
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people may or may not want to be involved in the foundation. But really such |
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decisions should not be left to them but say the Trustees. They vote for and |
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elect the Trustees. Thus any direction and decision they agree on, should not |
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be challenged per se. If you do not like it, you elect different ones next |
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time. |
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|
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I believe you, Rich have stated exactly that about your opinions and such. If |
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people do not like it, vote for someone else for council right? But that does |
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not mean you should be micro managed as a council member. To an extent your |
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opinion does outweigh others. You were democratically elected by a majority to |
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represent them. Not for them to approve everything you do. |
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|
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-- |
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William L. Thomson Jr. |