Gentoo Archives: gentoo-project

From: "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@××××××.com>
To: gentoo-project <gentoo-project@l.g.o>
Subject: [gentoo-project] Gentoo conflicts and leadership
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 19:33:51
Message-Id: assp.0178485318.59359915.ZAskbUhLL8@wlt
1 Starting a new thread, so others can filter.
2
3 > On Thursday, January 5, 2017 2:15:34 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote:
4 > Two things:
5 >
6 > First, serious conflicts are actually pretty rare. Sure, they're in
7 > the spotlight right now because we've had one of those
8 > once-in-a-few-years big incidents.
9
10 Somewhat, with regard to myself, I am tired of watching it happen over the
11 years and doing nothing. I thought it was just me, but years of observation
12 has shown its a much larger problem, going back to people like Ciaran and
13 before. That I chose a year that other stuff was going on, was just by
14 coincidence.
15
16 I had long mentioned taking things on list on by bug for years. I just held
17 back and finally the dam broke.
18
19 > Second, conflicts don't actually result in quagmires. Life moves on.
20 > We don't have difficulty deciding what to do with problematic people.
21 > A decision gets made, and sometimes it is appealed, and then a final
22 > decision gets made.
23
24 Hardly, Gentoo Java has been stagnant in may ways for years. That is
25 essentially a quagmire. New Java devs are few and far between. But it is not
26 just Java lacking. I love how people say Gentoo is lacking man power, then
27 turn around sand say its not in a quagmire. If you lack man power, clearly
28 things are not getting done. So some things are not moving on.
29
30 Ebuilds with no EAPI, cruft that needs to be updated, removed etc. Lots of
31 stuff in tree far beyond Java.
32
33 > I'm not sure why you think Gentoo uses consensus-based
34 > decision-making.
35
36 Because it is lead by pleasing the developers. Any action that developers do
37 not agree with is not taken. That is consensus.
38
39 From what I have observed the council is routinely polling for topics, and
40 hardly presenting new ones. I do not see leadership. If decisions are not
41 voted on or made by all developers, seems they are not taking place.
42
43 Nothing has changed on Foundation side, I do not see much happening anywhere.
44
45 > Most big things happen simply by announcing them on
46 > the lists and then change happens. Sometimes it is controversial, so
47 > then it waits for the next Council meeting, assuming the Council even
48 > needs to deal with it as opposed to a project team. Then the decision
49 > is made, and life moves on.
50
51 Where is the leadership coming from the council? The council coming up with
52 some direction for Gentoo?
53
54 Is there any direction?
55
56 The council was supposed to lead the project technically. I do not see such
57 happening. Here is an example, just happens to relate to Java.
58 http://www.funtoo.org/Java_Configuration_Design_Update
59
60 Where are the council produced GLEPs?
61
62 > Now, what we don't do is have the Council just come out with policies
63 > out of nowhere that nobody else agrees with. That isn't being
64 > decisive, that is just being stupid when you're a volunteer-based
65 > organization. Sure, many of our decisions are compromises, but they
66 > tend to be compromises that make sense.
67
68 No that is leadership. Leaders come up with ideas to benefit those they lead.
69 They should not solely rely on what others feel should be done, etc. There are
70 many times leaders must take things in directions people disagree with at
71 first, but sometimes tend to be the right thing in the long run.
72
73 For example, things like SLFC was discussed regarding Gentoo long ago. If
74 Gentoo ever did that, there would be a percentage that disagree. Those same
75 people may or may not want to be involved in the foundation. But really such
76 decisions should not be left to them but say the Trustees. They vote for and
77 elect the Trustees. Thus any direction and decision they agree on, should not
78 be challenged per se. If you do not like it, you elect different ones next
79 time.
80
81 I believe you, Rich have stated exactly that about your opinions and such. If
82 people do not like it, vote for someone else for council right? But that does
83 not mean you should be micro managed as a council member. To an extent your
84 opinion does outweigh others. You were democratically elected by a majority to
85 represent them. Not for them to approve everything you do.
86
87 --
88 William L. Thomson Jr.

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Replies

Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo conflicts and leadership Matthew Thode <prometheanfire@g.o>
Re: [gentoo-project] Gentoo conflicts and leadership "Andreas K. Huettel" <dilfridge@g.o>