From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from lists.gentoo.org (pigeon.gentoo.org [208.92.234.80]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by finch.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 33A92158083 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2024 01:52:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pigeon.gentoo.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4E521E2A6C; Tue, 24 Sep 2024 01:52:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from smtp.gentoo.org (dev.gentoo.org [IPv6:2001:470:ea4a:1:5054:ff:fec7:86e4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by pigeon.gentoo.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3169E2A5E for ; Tue, 24 Sep 2024 01:52:32 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <57dcba0c-bdb7-461b-ad29-11f3c1d8a9a2@gentoo.org> Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2024 21:52:29 -0400 Precedence: bulk List-Post: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Id: Gentoo Linux mail X-BeenThere: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Reply-to: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org X-Auto-Response-Suppress: DR, RN, NRN, OOF, AutoReply MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of! To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org References: <65e5de50-e053-46ff-be61-52f472d95025@gentoo.org> Content-Language: en-US From: Eli Schwartz Autocrypt: addr=eschwartz@gentoo.org; keydata= xjMEZmeRNBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAYNZ7pUDWhx1i2f3p6L2ZLu4FcY18UoeGC04Gq/khqwfN I0VsaSBTY2h3YXJ0eiA8ZXNjaHdhcnR6QGdlbnRvby5vcmc+wpYEExYKAD4WIQTvUdMIsc4j CIi+DYTqQj6ToWND8QUCZoRL+gIbAwUJBKKGAAULCQgHAwUVCgkICwUWAgMBAAIeBQIXgAAK CRDqQj6ToWND8aB5AP9r4kB691nNtNwKkdRiOdl7/k6WYzokvHvDamXxRJ0I+gEAjZqR5V8y mfR3fy2Z+r2Joeqdt3CIv5IwPs64spBvigLOOARmZ5E0EgorBgEEAZdVAQUBAQdATT46Z06b 1X9xjXFCYFxmq/Tj3tSEKZInDWTpoHQp4l8DAQgHwn4EGBYKACYWIQTvUdMIsc4jCIi+DYTq Qj6ToWND8QUCZmeRNAIbDAUJBKKGAAAKCRDqQj6ToWND8a2RAP40KPfbfoiZAJW5boFmFJ3G TUBDJRh9CWHyaPqq2PN+0wD/R07oLzfnJUN209mzi9TuTuHjeZybysyqXSw4MAxkMAY= In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="------------qDDbT9EASpKN8B4vG0pQ0PlQ" X-Archives-Salt: 38d59e39-0a0f-4e79-96ba-cf0e227e0ddc X-Archives-Hash: 9c8974f853a74e988a5f2f1ffc6fe77d This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --------------qDDbT9EASpKN8B4vG0pQ0PlQ Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------9HMpHDdaya66rSB5iuEicSiS"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eli Schwartz To: gentoo-user@lists.gentoo.org Message-ID: <57dcba0c-bdb7-461b-ad29-11f3c1d8a9a2@gentoo.org> Subject: Re: [gentoo-user] Wayland! Beware of! References: <65e5de50-e053-46ff-be61-52f472d95025@gentoo.org> In-Reply-To: --------------9HMpHDdaya66rSB5iuEicSiS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 9/23/24 8:52 PM, Mitchell Dorrell wrote: > I run a lean X system for desktop workflows, with USE=3D"-wayland". > Every unconditional dev-libs/wayland dependency I've encountered has > used dlopen. These were proprietary binary applications like Zoom and > Slack. On an X system, they work completely fine without > dev-libs/wayland, though. If I remember correctly, the word was, > "Upstream says it's a dependency, so it's a dependency.". >=20 > The moral of that story is, an unconditional dependency on Wayland > *does not mean* that it isn't fully functional without > dev-libs/wayland. I took a look at Gentoo's net-im/zoom package as an example. It has USE=3Dwayland. If you disable wayland support, it deletes: - /opt/zoom/cef/libGLESv2.so conditional on the bundled Qt: - /opt/zoom/Qt/lib/libQt5Wayland*.so* - /opt/zoom/Qt/plugins/wayland* - /opt/zoom/Qt/plugins/platforms/libqwayland*.so - /opt/zoom/Qt/qml/QtWayland including comments such as "Soname dependency on libwayland-client.so.0" (for libGLESv2, which doesn't actually seem to be accurate?) I did say "usually" for a reason. Proprietary software has a dual habit o= f: - statically linking to support libraries such as say, libwayland-client - going to extremes to defer loading libraries which they don't bundle, behind dlopen conditionals to make it more likely it will run on diverse end user systems This is typically just not the case for open source software, because they can rely on package manager distribution with enforced dependencies, and people rebuilding from source if they don't want a specific dependency. And of course: compiling against libwayland-client and hiding it behind a dlopen still requires you to have what to compile against as a build dependency, making it less attractive to people that know the software can simply be recompiled from source. slack does indeed have only one dependency on dev-libs/wayland that I can find -- it comes from https://swiftshader.googlesource.com/SwiftShader/+/a88d056919f1a84777c8b3= 3531f40acc74a19d1e%5E%21/ Previously, slack was modified to have an unconditional RDEPEND on wayland via https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=3D0328dbab456f04c57b= 286cf93235f7323c7c5a0f The commit message indicates exactly why it was added and it was not "upstream says it's a dependency, so it's a dependency". :) Please open a bug report for it. Thanks. =2E.. Overall I think that these phantom wayland dependencies are an artifact of Electron's constant churn and the fact that every application using electron basically bundles its own inconsistent copy of it. --=20 Eli Schwartz --------------9HMpHDdaya66rSB5iuEicSiS-- --------------qDDbT9EASpKN8B4vG0pQ0PlQ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="OpenPGP_signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="OpenPGP_signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- wnsEABYIACMWIQTnFNnmK0TPZHnXm3qEp9ErcA0vVwUCZvIbXQUDAAAAAAAKCRCEp9ErcA0vVyir AQCH354Yz66Lw5D7m1lEhEDc6Fn2wF5TfkLEzSmlPWpwrQEA/7KdpGW9nX+vCmLd50mwlskJ0Lr8 OciaGpuLTxczjgk= =8fXr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --------------qDDbT9EASpKN8B4vG0pQ0PlQ--